Attention BRAC Parents: Huntsville City Schools vs. CJ Grisham
If you are a BRAC or military parent you MUST review this story before considering where to purchase a house and educate your children in the Huntsville area. The school in question here is Williams Middle School located off of Zierdt Rd in Huntsville.
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I want to do a reset on the story about the Huntsville City Schools and CJ Grisham. After reading a series of comments left by Bill (not his/her real name), who purports – believably so – to be a teacher at Williams Middle School, it is clear that some people just don’t get it.
The fundamental problem in this case is that a parent disagreed with a school policy. The principal of the school responded by contacting the parent’s employer and complaining that she felt threatened. The employer in this case just happens to be the US Army. When is it ever permissible for the schools to contact a parent’s employer over a policy disagreement? Never!
If the principal, Avis Williams, felt threatened as she claimed then she should have contacted police and filed charges. It bears mentioning that Williams is a former member of the Army and clearly knew who to contact in Grisham’s chain of command and how to phrase a complaint for maximum effect. She didn’t contact the Army because she felt threatened. She contacted the Army because she wanted to quash Grisham’s dissent over her policy. That’s right, she intentionally set out to damage his career – his livelihood – because he dared to question a new school policy.
The particular policy in question, which was new school uniforms, is irrelevant. I don’t care if Grisham stood up in a meeting and called the principal and PTA president doodoo heads (actually, Grisham has video of at least one meeting posted to his website so you can judge how “threatening” he was for yourself). All that matters is that an employee of the Huntsville City Schools tried to damage a veteran’s career over what was a political disagreement. There are appropriate ways to deal with disagreements or even perceived threats. What they did was inappropriate.
What is more infuriating is the lack of leadership and honesty by superintendent Dr. Ann Roy Moore. She has explicitly denied that the school principal contacted the Army. The only problem with that is that Grisham has copies of about a dozen emails from Principal Williams to the Army. Dr. Moore is copied on most of them! For her to deny that the school system contacted the Army is a blatant lie. The emails and Grisham’s commentary on them is attached at the end of this post.
There are further troubling details about this case if you want to get down in the weeds. The school took at least one of Grisham’s children out of class to poor mouth the parents. Grisham’s PTSD from his service to our country in Iraq was used against him. That is disgusting.
While it is inappropriate for the schools to contact any parent’s employer it is particularly bad for Huntsville Schools to contact the military. This is an Army town. More military jobs are headed this way with BRAC. Is this really how we want our schools to treat our soldiers this way?
As a side note, you can peruse Avis Williams’ blog here. It includes, amusingly, a Veterans Day post. There is also a post where she talks about a program to stop complaining, gossiping or criticizing others. Unless “others” are veterans in our US Army apparently.
Remember, Your Involvement is Welcome in Huntsville City Schools. Contact Dr. Moore and let her know that Huntsville City Schools needs to apologize to Grisham and his family and they need to contact his superiors in the military and right this wrong.
Superintendent:
Dr. Ann Roy Moore
(256) 428-6810
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The following is a series of emails obtained by CJ Grisham and posted to his Facebook page along with some commentary after Huntsville School Board member Dr. Jennie Robinson appeared on the Dale Jackson show. I have not made any edits.
Today, Huntsville City Schools board member, Dr. Jennie Robinson, went on the Dale Jackson show to defend the school system, Superintendent Anne Moore, and Principal Avis Williams. She said with absolute certainty that “school system employees did not contact the Army.” I have the smoking gun and I’m presenting the evidence to the court of public opinion right now.
Dr. Robinson to WVNN morning host, Dale Jackson: “I do not believe ANY school employee contacted ANYONE on the base and I have also received that confirmation from arsenal staff.”
The emphasis is hers, not mine. This has been the crutch of the argument since the beginning. School officials have continuously tried to label me a monster, a liar, and a threat. Allow me to quote from an email sent to the ARMY school liaison officer, Barbara Williams on 1 Oct 2009 at 11:27pm. This email was sent after the first meeting with the school on the uniform policy in which the principal refused to answer parents concerns and then feigned absolute fear because I had the unmitigated gall to call her on it.
“I do have a problem with Mr. Grisham and would like to make a formal complaint to his superior. I am very glad that Al Lankford [the school's security supervisor or something] was at the meeting, otherwise I would have feared for my safety and would’ve called security and HPD. Even after being threathened [sic] at Terry Heights, I have not experienced the concern that I have about this parent. He was disruptive, disrespectful and attempted to publicly humiliate me and a threatening tone. The vast majority of the parents were supportive and appreciative of the fact that the meeting was held and that vouchers were provided. He concerns me. I am considering taking further action (a trespass order or something) but wanted to mention it to you first. I understand parents wanting to express themselves but this man is scary.
Please let me know if there is anything that you can do or offer any other suggestions. He is a First Sergeant and I’m told that he has PTSD.Avis”
No one else sent that email unless a very good hacker was able to get into abwilliams@hsv.k12.al.us and sent that out so soon after the meeting. Interestingly, this email went out almost exactly one hour after I sent an email to Dr. Moore, Dr. Yates, and Principal Williams requesting a meeting on MY treatment that night. My email went out at 10:38, but Principal Williams needed to do quick damage control. She realized that she had royally screwed up and needed to get on the offensive quickly. Here is the “scary” email I sent that night, exactly 49 minutes prior to her “concern” about me. I will not provide any editing or explanation until after my quote:
Dr. Moore,
My name is CJ Grisham and I’m the very proud parent of three honor roll children (one of whom is an NJHS member) attending Williams Middle and Elementary School. On Thursday, 1 October 2009, Principal Avis Williams held a parents meeting to showcase the school uniforms. I’m sure by now you are aware of my disagreement with Mrs. Williams after that “meeting.” On behalf of the “one or two parents” that also disagreed with the timing of this policy (which was really more like 50-60), I would like to schedule a meeting on this topic with you, the principal and parents. This is a topic that parents deserve to have a voice in. Since the principal refused to allow us to voice our concerns tonight, I’m taking them to the next level.
Huntsville City Schools policy number 102-8 states that “the Board of Education supports the development, implementation, and regular evaluation of a program in each school, which will involve parents and the community at all grade levels in a variety of roles.” It goes on to list some components of how that is made possible, such as
* Family and school communications is two-way, regular, meaningful, and respectful of diversity
* Parents and the community are welcome in the school, and their active support and assistance are sought
* Inclusion of parents and community as partners in the decisions that affect children and familiesI will state unequivocally that there was NOT two-way communication on the uniform policy. It was a one-way communication that simply informed us of the decision to switch to uniforms mid-school year. The community was NOT welcome in the school as demonstrated by Mrs. Williams banishment of the media present to cover a simple event to showcase school uniforms. She did this rudely and without identifying herself WHILE a parent of one of the students was being interviewed. And, finally, parents certainly were NOT included in the uniform decision, which no one can argue doesn’t affect children and families.
Parents had an opportunity to question the security official and the uniform store official, but no one was allowed to question the principal who unilaterally decided this was a great idea. Let me state plainly and openly that I, along with most of the parents I’ve spoken and met with on this topic, am not opposed to school uniforms. Far from it! I have absolutely no problem with them. I wear uniforms on a daily basis as a Soldier. What I have a problem with are parents not being consulted on these major decisions. I have a problem with instituting an expensive uniform policy halfway through a school year after the most expensive holiday of the year and after school clothes have already been purchased. I have a problem with a principal who refuses to even listen to voices of opposition and then mislead you and others about how many of us there are! I have a problem with a principal who dismisses my concerns and tells me that she won’t discuss a uniform policy with me at a uniform meeting! I have a problem with a principal who doesn’t understand the fundamentals of our free society in allowing the media to cover a public event. What is there to hide if only “one or two” of us disagree, as you stated on record tonight? Her conduct tonight was unacceptable, mean spirited, and completely unprofessional.
One parent tried to explain to other parents how much these uniforms cost, but couldn’t be heard because no microphone was set up. When she went to approach the microphone after other parents wanted to hear what she said, Mrs. Williams said it “wasn’t necessary” and didn’t allow the parent to be heard. She mentioned some fictitious price sheet that I and other parents haven’t seen. One of the school officials sitting right next to Mrs. Williams cast aside our concerns over the cost of having to purchase multiple uniforms by basically telling us to teach our kids to do laundry! I thought we taught our kids how to conserve water and energy and yet we’re being told to wash uniforms basically every day?! No silly $50 voucher is going cover everything the kids need, especially with multiple kids. My cost would be easily over $400 to purchase just five sets of clothing and that’s assuming I even qualify for a voucher.
The parents and I would like to schedule a meeting with you to discuss our concerns. We are not against uniforms, we simply believe that there is no reason to force us to purchase them or the kids to wear them in January. We are in the middle of one of the recessions in recent memory and money is tight for everyone. The Huntsville City School system receives a LOT of federal money for all the military children attending school here. We deserve a voice in our childrens’ education. And we also vote in school board and superintendent elections.
I study law and am aware of numerous United States District Court rulings in which the legality of forcing unwilling children to wear a uniform were questioned and ruled unconstitutional when challenged. I brought two cases with me tonight. I’m also aware of federal law contained within the US Code that specifically states that “parents have the primary responsibility for the education of their children, and States, localities, and private institutions have the primary responsibility for supporting that parental role.” (U.S. Code, Title 20, Chapter 48, Subchapter I, Paragraph 3401(3))(emphasis mine)
We believe this decision can be postponed until the new school year or some other compromise. If the uniform is voluntary until December, it can be voluntary until May. Please let me know of a few dates when you would be available so I can coordinate with the families who are also concerned. A timely response to this concern is appreciated. Please feel free to contact me directly at 256-xxx-xxxx if you would like to discuss scheduling over the phone.
May I also add that it was completely contempful of Mrs. Harrison (7th grade science teacher) to remark to other parents how embarrassed my wife must feel being married to me. Those comments by her and other teachers about those of us that disagree are completely uncalled for and made me feel as if I needed to speak with the assistant principal to inform her that if there is any blowback against my kids for what happened tonight, lawsuits will follow. My children’s education experience had better not be affected by my actions in standing up for my rights as a parent and organizing others who feel the same way. I can’t even begin to describe how absolutely ashamed I am of the administration tonight at Williams Middle School. My wife is proud that I had the courage to stand up for what is right and stood by me the entire time. Mrs. Harrison and other teachers need to stay in their lane of educating our children.
It’s important to note that I never got a response from either Dr. Moore, Dr. Yates or Principal Williams to this email and a request for meeting. The first meeting with Dr. Moore didn’t come until the Monday prior to the next PTA meeting on 11 Oct AFTER the fall break when the crap hit the fan and both Principal Williams and PTA President Angela Moore continued to contact the Army directly. Keep in mind that Principal Williams brought in my PTSD after most likely looking for something derogatory on my blog. And she used it as the basis and backbone for a phony claim that I was violent, scary, and threatening. After all, aren’t all PTSD sufferers homicidal maniacs just waiting to crack and spray an entire city block of innocent bystanders?
Dr. Robinson to WVNN morning host, Dale Jackson: “Dr. Moore has reported to me, and I have no reason not to believe her, based on reports from the Arsenal that no one contacted the army…All I am satisfied to know is that it wasn’t ANYONE from the school system.”
Again, the emphasis is Dr. Robinson’s. After sending out the email above to Barbara Williams, the Redstone Arsenal military school liaison officer, she then crafted another email as if she just sort of stumbled upon it AFTER seeing mine, most likely. In response directly to the email I wrote above, Principal Avis Williams again emailed the Army with the following:
“This is the parent that I referred to in my earlier email. I’m not sure how Dr. Moore will want to handle this, but I will not be meeting with him without security being present. He was very disruptive, rude and nasty at the meeting.
Please give me your thoughts.
Avis”
The military school liaison’s thoughts were to forward the email to my chain of command! So much for representing the interests of military and civilian personnel assigned to the Arsenal. It probably should be noted that Barbara Williams is a former Huntsville City Schools employee and principal prior to accepting her current position.
So here we already have two instances where the Principal that didn’t contact military officials actually contacted military officials. But, it gets better. Let’s recap a moment. So far, I’m “scary,” “threatening,” “disruptive,” “disrespectful,” “rude,” “nasty,” and “humiliating.”
Dr. Robinson to WVNN morning host, Dale Jackson: “I’m saying he doesn’t have any proof and we have every indication from the Arsenal staff that it was someone else who contacted them. Someone OTHER than a school system employee…Dr. Moore and I have had our disagreements. However, in THIS instance, I absolutely believe that Dr. Moore is telling the truth…If I didn’t have faith in her to that extent (telling the truth), I’d be asking for her resignation.”
On October 2nd, another parent emailed Principal Williams with concerns about how she conducted the meeting the prior night. In her reply to that parent, she CC’d Army official, Barbara Williams again. Because she was a minority female, she was much nicer to her, even though she was in the back of the cafeteria just as frustrated as I was. For her privacy, I will not use her name or the exact wording of the email.
But, on Monday, October 5th, Principal Avis Williams who, last time I checked was a “school system employee” sent an email to Army official Barbara Williams quoting something I had written on my blog on Friday, October 2nd:
I got an email from the district supervisor about the school uniform issue. The school has reversed course and will not make uniforms mandatory this year. However, they will be mandatory next year.
While this is a great win, it’s not the end of the problem. Parents and students still were not consulted about whether we even WANT uniforms! And while I’m ambivalent about school uniforms, I still want the ability guaranteed to me by school policies and U.S. Code as a parent. Major decisions that affect my children directly MUST occur with our input.
We do not work for the government! We do not work for the school system. I refuse to be disrespected and my parental right discarded by a principal out of control! This is a great win, but it’s not over yet!
We’re going to Dairy Queen to celebrate!
Avis Williams began quickly grasping at straws, having lost a crucial battle in forcing uniforms upon our children and burdening families with unneeded financial liabilities. Principal Williams again contacted Army officials:
Read below. I copied and pasted this from his website (www.asoldiersperspective.us [sic]). What does he mean, it’s not over? He gives me a feeling in my gut like I have never had before. Please get me in touch with his supervisor. I don’t appreciate his depiction of me or of this situation.
Thanks!
Avis
Hmmmm, so I’m not allowed to have a “depiction” of this principal? And really, based on the context of the entire blog post, she didn’t understand what “it’s not over” means? This woman is in charge of educating our children? But this isn’t the worst part. What I just quoted for you came at the end of a LONG email chain between Principal Williams and the Army. And here’s where Dr. Moore’s and Dr. Robinson’s assertion that the PTA is a separate and distinct entity unregulated or controlled by Huntsville City Schools gets a little blurry and skewered.
On October 5th, at 12:33 in the afternoon, I sent an email to PTA President Angela Thomas. The email said:
Mrs. Thomas,
I would like a moment to speak before the PTA during the 13 Oct meeting about the Middle School uniform decision. Do you have an agenda for the meeting yet?
One of the politices [sic] as stated in the by-laws of the PTA is to “seek to participate in the decision-making process establishing school policy.”
Her response was simple and ignorant. “Who is this?” I answered, “This is CJ Grisham. I have two middle school students and an elementary school student at Williams.” “Who’s by laws? Schools or state?” I responded equally simply with “School’s by-laws.” She then retorted, “Ok, now what are you wanting to address? I am not trying to be difficult but I must ask.” Did she not even read the previous email? Great googly-moogly. I responded simply, “The new uniform policy for the middle school.”
This is where the line between Huntsville City Schools and the PTA get blurred. If they were two completely separate and individual entities, why did Mrs. Thomas respond with this:
Since you already contacted Dr. Moore, it would be in the best interest of everyone concerned if you allow Dr Moore the opportunity to respond to your concerns.
Now, you are more than welcome to attend any PTA meeting; however attending with the AGENDA of disrupting the meeting or taking over to distribute your platform is not in accordance with my program.
Sincerely,
Angela
PTA President
This is interesting because I never told Angela that I had spoken to Dr. Moore. But, remember that first email I sent at 10:38 on Thursday night to Dr. Moore and Principal Williams requesting a meeting? Apparently, the information in that email was shared with Angela Thomas. Huntsville City Schools and the PTA are separate and distinct? And last I checked, the PTA wasn’t Angela’s program. She was just the president of it. There’s a reason we pay dues. So, I responded to Angela directly and pointedly:
Thanks. I’ll just use the by-laws then and bring it up according to them. If the PTA doesn’t want to acknowledge the “P” portion of its initials, I’ll use procedure. If you violate the PTA charter, I will report your chapter to the State PTA and have your charter reviewed for violation of your articles. This is not YOUR organization. You are the president of it and are bound to abide by the articles of your charter.
See you on the 13th.
Now prior to sending out this email, Angela then contacted the Army with her response to my email. She CC’d Dr. Moore, Dr. Yates, Principal Williams, Principal McAllister (elementary school principal) and the Army’s school liaison officer, Barbara Williams. The emails said:
Hello my name is Angela Thomas and I am the PTA President of J.E. Williams Elementary and Middle.
Below is an email I have received from 1st SGT CJ Grisham. Please advise if my response appropriate [sic]?
I in no way want any problems with this man. I have viewed his web site listed and to be honest I am very worried about his actions at my PTA Meeting on Oct 13, 2009. PLEASE assist me with this matter.
Sincerely,
Angela
After that email was sent out, Huntsville City Schools employee, Principal Avis Williams, chimed in and sent an email to Army officials:
My two cents: He makes me very uncomfortable. If he is going to come to the meeting whether on the agenda or not, I request security and an SRO to be present as well.
Avis
Interestingly, without so much as asking anyone else what happened that night, the Army school liaison officer responded to Principal Williams, simply, “I agree.” The person that represent Soldiers and Civilians at Redstone Arsenal issued a blanket agreement. This pumped up Principal Williams.
Dr. Robinson to WVNN morning host, Dale Jackson: “It is absolutely my understanding that Ms. Williams, Dr. Moore, or ANY school employee did not contact anyone at the arsenal.”
About a half hour after Barbara Williams (are all the Williams’ confusing you yet?) responded to Principal Williams, Principal Williams – last I checked a “school employee” – wrote back to the Army:
Can his supervisor be contacted? I feel harrassed [sic] to be honest. His attitude and rhetoric is so antagonistic against me and the school that it could be detrimental to our progress and to the other relationships that I am establishing. He got his way. The uniforms are optional through the end of this school year. Yet he is still demanding to speak out against me and the school. Al Lankford was at the entire meeting last week and has advised me not to meet with 1SGT Grisham without security present. Please help!!!
Avis
At this point, you would think that the Army would explain to Principal Williams that, no, his supervisor cannot be contacted. This is a private issue between a parent and a school system. Instead, the school liaison told Principal Williams that “yes the supervisor can be contacted. I will work on finding out who it is Tuesday. I am so sorry this happened to you.”
It’s at this point in the back and forth that my blog posting is brought up and Principal Williams brings up false fear and supposed threats.
Dr. Robinson to WVNN morning host, Dale Jackson: “Dr. Moore and I have had our disagreements. However, in THIS instance, I absolutely believe that Dr. Moore is telling the truth. If I didn’t have faith in her to that extent, I’d be asking for her resignation.”
I expect the resignation will be forthcoming quite quickly? These are just the emails I have from a ONE WEEK time frame. These don’t even include the conversations between the principal, PTA President, Superintendent and more senior Army officials at the General Officer level!
Is Dr. Robinson still so absolutely sure that I’m not owed an apology and that the school system has done everything right? Can I be present for the resignation?
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Why not just take the kids out of the school and either enroll them in a private school or home school them.
He did. The problem is that they are trying to destroy his career.
Will, we did just that. But why should we have to shoulder the additional of home schooling or private school because of poor leadership. That’s such a cop out. How about the people responsible be held accountable. There’s no such thing as a voucher system, so by pulling my kids out I’m paying wtice for their education. I did pull my kids when teachers began singling them out and nothing was done about it.
Sorry for the grammar and punctuation. Typing this on my iPod.
CJ I agree with you on both points. Firstly, it is wrong of them to have gone to your employer over a dispute you had with the school. It is also a disgrace that Alabama does not have a voucher system, as it would give us more of a choice of what school we should be sending our children to. At no point should teachers begin singling your children out, and to be honest I would be looking up some advice from a lawyer concerning the situation.
I have never been the one to support public education after the No Child Left Behind took effect, especially seeing as how I witnessed it first hand.
Your children will be better off in a private school / home schooled in my opinion.
A voucher system would be a great thing to begin pushing through our state government, wonder why no one talks much about it?
He shouldn’t have to change schools. My kids are home-schooled, but my tax dollars pay for government schools, so I have a dawg in the race – plus, this just plain pi$$es me off.
1) I would have Ms. Williams job. She, and anyone who email could prove had knowledge of her antics, would be sued for defamation and libel.
2) This woman claims she was scared. If she pulled a stunt like that with someone not quite as nice as Mr. Grisham, she would probably have reason to be scared. People are fed up with overbearing, gubmint teat bureaucrats running roughshod over people they are supposed to be serving.
Why should he have to take his kids out of the school or home school them? Pardon me we pay tax dollars, are they going to exempt him & everyone else that does not like this controlling principal from paying any taxes to the school district?
What’s going on with HSV city and its schools these days? It all starts from the top, the leaders without integrity — acting more like tyrants. If one can’t speak out at a PTA meeting because one might get harassed/fired by his/her employer – something is terribly wrong, what is this – CHINA?
Feeling threatened is not a policy disagreement.
The parent needs to brush up on his people skills. Acting in a way that makes others feel threatened has never been acceptable behavior, and it isn’t acceptable behavior now.
Your comment made me feel threatened. Who is your employer?
Well hey, I had just as much reason to feel “threatened” by you as that principal did to feel “threatened” by CJ whose only crime was to politely question her stupid policy.
But as usual, you don’t really care about the facts. You’re content to just waddle in with your usual gadfly shtick.
Bob, the most rude, disruptive, and theatening I’ve ever heard. Your comments gives me a feeling in the pit of my stomach that I haven’t felt since I barely escaped an IED outside of Fallujah. Since you’re a liberal, I doubt you’re employed so I can’t contact your employer. But, if you’re really a Reverend, I WILL be having a conversation with your other Boss.
For a reverend, you really need to brush up on your people skills.
Bob,
Let me put this simply for your pompous a$$, you are a leftist shill, and as hard as it is to fathom since you’re also over the hill – a punk.
Rev Bob- I am a PTA member and was present at both meetings. You can view the video online and see for yourself that Mr Grisham was not threatening in any way. If they can call anyone that stands up to bullying by the school administration “threatening”, then we should just start dressing our kids like the Hitler Youth. Many concerned parents were trying to ask questions of Ms. Williams, including myself, about the costly policy she tried to put in place in the middle of the school year, at Christmas time. Mr. Grisham just stands out because he could not be cowed by her agressive behavior. Watch the videos for yourself. You will see him making motions, raising his hand to speak, etc. You will see her deny him a chance to speak and then go the microphone herself and say that our concerns are invalid and therefore do not warrant debate. How would you like to be told that by someone that makes a nice living off of your tax $$$$?
Same old Crispen. Don’t you know any other songs? I hear you’re a musician.
If the Huntsville City School system insists that “nobody” contacted the Army, it should be easy to answer that question by looking at the email header information. Especially if people were sending these emails from their official school email accounts. The headers will show the originating IP address and you can check and see if that’s also the HSV city schools’ IP. That would be pretty much of a slam dunk.
I’m assuming, of course, that they aren’t using any anonymous or proxy servers to disguise their IP addresses.
Just a thought. It might help clarify the situation when talking with school board members about the issue. It sounds to me like they totally over-reacted and instead of backing off decided to dig in. Stupid.
Keep fighting, CJ! Even though your kids are (thankfully) out of the school, keep pushing this issue. It is simply shameful that a grown woman can’t have someone disagree with her without her feeling “threatened.” You did threaten her, CJ, but not physically. You clearly threatened her tyrannical power structure that she has implemented within that school.
I have wanted to support the Grisham family since news first broke about this situation. But in the spirit of not rushing to pass judgment, as conservatives should not do, I researched both sides of the story. And from a trusted teacher at Williams, they attended the PTA meetings at issue here and are neutral with this issue but mentioned that CJ’s behavior at the first and subsequent PTA meetings quickly became over the top and more than called for even with what took place from the principal.
I want to sympathize with and support CJ’s family but I believe the truth is somewhere in the middle of this story as is the case many times.
I submit to all of you that we take a step back, allow the truth to come to light and then see what corrective action is warranted.
You can talk to all the people you want. The fact is that the I recorded the SECOND meeting because of the lies and distortions told about me after the FIRST one. You can watch the video for yourself and see how “out of control” I was on my blog (www.soldiersperspective.us). Then, you’ll see that the “neutral” teacher at Williams is way off base. The truth has already come to light over and over again. What more do we want? I have video, taped phone conversations, and emails. Is there some higher form of evidence I’m missing here?
Did you not even read this blog? Did you not read that Avis Williams, Ann Roy Moore and Angela Thomas all lied repeatedly on radio to everyone? What CJ said or did at the meeting is irrelavent at least to any thinking person. They lied. Does that not mean anything to you at all?
@CJ. I am sorry that there are people like this in Huntsville. It makes me sick. To defend these women is disgusting. If I were a BRAC person, there is no way I would move into Huntsville. There are many Madison County schools that are far superior.
Please keep fighting. There is much at stake here.
CJ- I have seen the video and understand your reason for frustration. I am not defending the female leaders in question here but would rather like to see them out of office/position. Just simply want to make sure that while the heat is kept on this issue that it appears to be a constructive movement towards justice by all supporters involved and not a witch hunt that can be twisted by the local media. I do hope that you are able to find an attorney who will take this up and fight for you.
I wish I could find an attorney as well, but the ones I’ve contacted aren’t interested.
I am a little confused.
If CJ has removed his children from the school why does this still continue? Secondly, is this a “conservative” versus “liberal” issue? Or perhaps its a “Republican versus Democrat” issue. I am really unclear.
CJ posts……”Since you’re a liberal, I doubt you’re employed so I can’t contact your employer. But, if you’re really a Reverend, I WILL be having a conversation with your other Boss”.
Only conservatives have jobs? What in the name of school uniforms does political leanings have to do with your argument, CJ? Please help me understand how this issue at WMS is a Conservative vs. Liberal issue.
I am curious do you have to follow protocol as part of your military service or because of your service you are somehow exempt from using it in the civilian world?
The only thing that I am clear on in all of this is, you have done a pretty good job of giving all your nay-sayers and detractors pretty good ammunition in your fight for justice.
I absolutely assure you that your message will be lost based on how erratic and where you have made your argument.
Now, CJ has threatened to call everyone short of Barack Obama for this grave injustice to the American way of life and this attack on parents by liberal school administrators (sarcasm) .
He started a blog called a “soldiers perspective” but only wants to be recognized as a parent(wink,wink).
I call BS for that.
Now I would assert that if you were not cloaking yourself in the American flag and your military service when things were not going your way you could have gotten a lot more support, perhaps even some from those “liberals” but I’m sure you don’t want theirs.
Your superiors were contacted solely because of your attempt to bully the administration because of your service. I would expect that if a member of HPD stood up and said I work for the police department and was perceived as being erratic, you don’t think someone’s sergeant would not have gotten a call? You served. You put your life on the line. We get it but that does not give you a pass on protocol.
CJ, let me be clear. I appreciate your service to our country and as a parent would probably support you 1,000% I just can’t support your delivery. Posting your argument on a political blog site makes me question your true intent.
Austin, I was painting with a broad brush. Obviously, there are some liberals who work. For the record, this isn’t a Republican vs. Democrat issue at all. I’m neither, by the way. I’m a proud, happy independent Libertarian. I was just responding to Reverend and take back my all-encompassing swipe at liberals.
You continue to miss the point I’m trying to make. This has nothing to do with the fact that my kids are not still in that school. Should I just ignore the reasons behind WHY I had to pull my kids out of school simply because they aren’t there anymore? I’m fighting for the system to write a grievous wrong, and nothing more. Even after my kids were out of the school, they continued their crusade against me.
I’ve had a number of issues with Williams’ liberal education policies. Her institution of “A World Without Complaint” is ludicrous and dangerous, but a classic liberal Utopian idea being forced upon my kids while they were still there. This is scary and does not belong in a school at all. Especially one like Williams where there are problems with bullying and discipline.
“I am curious do you have to follow protocol as part of your military service or because of your service you are somehow exempt from using it in the civilian world?” I have no idea what you’re talking about here. What protocol are you referring to? There is no “protocol” for dealing with a private education matter. My supervisor does not accompany me to parent/teacher conferences or demand to see my child’s report card. Please explain what you mean here because I’m honestly confused.
As for my blog, should I have started another, separate blog called “A Parent’s Perspective” so that I could safely address my own children’s educational challenges in your mind? It’s not called “THE Soldier’s Perspective”, it’s called “A Soldier’s Perspective.” I’ve spoken about taxes, rancid beef, the TV show 24, and education. I talk about MY life as a father. My life as a youth leader. My life as a geocacher. My life as a motorcyclist. My life as a Soldier. My life as a husband. My life as a Christian. It’s MY blog and I can pretty much write whatever I feel like. Actually, it’s my wife’s blog now!
Let me see if I have you right. The fact that I have a military-oriented blog makes it okay to contact my employer every time I have a disagreement with the principal publicly?
And for the record, I didn’t publish any argument. It was picked up by this blog’s writers without any of my input whatsoever. My wife was called to be on the Dale Jackson show. My wife was called to be on WAAY 31. Just wanted to make it clear that the owners and authors of Flashpoint Blog don’t answer to me at any level and are free to post whatever they feel is applicable to their audience. It just so happens I’m the subject of one of their posts. I’d be willing to direct you to other places where people aren’t so supportive of my writing if it will make you feel better…
@Austin,
Wonderful liberal rant that again makes no sense. CJ tried to use protocol to be heard. The principal, the super intendant, and the PTA president, shut him down. They are the ones who ignored protocol for their own purposes. They fact you can’t see that is a problem that if find with most liberals.
Also, and I say again, a very liberal characteristic, you seem to have no problem that the principal called CJ’s superiors and complained and then lied to everyone. Ann Roy Moore knew this and lied to everyone. Yet you seem to have no problem with that.
What are you teaching your children if you have any. Lying is ok as long as your get your way?
One more thing, there is no issue that anyone has in thier private life that is not illegal that would justify calling the employer. That is illegal. Try it sometime and see if you don’t end of paying out quite a bit of money.
@CJ. Sorry again CJ. Please believe me that the majority of folks in this area do not think like Austin.
You are a moron. There is never, ever anytime whatsoever that it is appropriate for the school system to contact a parent’s employer. And yes, by the rambling content of your commentary we all know that you are a kool-aid drinking liberal of the worst kind.
I would have already contacted the State PTA and the State Superintendent of schools to let them know my intention of filing suit for defamation of character and harrassment. Let us know where to send the donation to help fund your lawsuit against these fascists. It is time the adults take back the school system from the kooks and begin again to teach the principles that this country was founded upon to our children. Like one of the other posters, I do not have children of my own but I volunteer in the system and have a niece who is in the local school system. We have had to put up with their garbage as well. They didn’t have a problem letting my niece’s drunk mother pick her up and put her life at risk. When confronted, they claimed they only smelled listerine. We are so glad they value the lives of our children.
CJ, we greatly appreciate your service to your country. I would take your word over anyone involved in the unionized education system of this state. Period.
Disclosure – I met CJ once in real life, and documented the event (great photos if I say so myself):
http://www.flashpointblog.com/2009/04/16/what-a-lovely-tea-party-part-dos/
As you can clearly see, CJ was busy – and we’ve never had a ‘conversation’ that wasn’t public and online here at Flashpoint – I’ve linked to his blog a few times. We’re Facebook Friends. I like and respect CJ.
I read his story at his blog and was shocked. We can’t undo what’s been done to the Grisham family, but we can help make it right.
“Your superiors were contacted solely because of your attempt to bully the administration because of your service. I would expect that if a member of HPD stood up and said I work for the police department and was perceived as being erratic, you don’t think someone’s sergeant would not have gotten a call? ”
You’re a clueless tool. How can you possibly relate the two events? You can’t, they are apples and okra. One is attempting to use a position in which the individual has authority over another, and the other, quite simply, is not.
CJ,
If you do want to sue the principal, you’d have to do it in the form of suing the school system. You could sue her as an agent of the school system, which she is in her role of principal. But the end result would be suing the school system because of her actions as an employee of the school system. You may have heard that already. I’m not sure.
I’m wondering who the Al Lankford is that she refers to — possibly the security guard who assaulted your wife?
I don’t believe that is entirely correct. If she knowingly violated a law, she is not immune simply because she was acting as an “agent.”
I wasn’t saying she is immune. I was actually saying the opposite, and I was saying what would be the most legally appropriate way of suing her as I understand it. (I am not an attorney, however, but am giving that information based on my knowledge of law.)
Interesting how the principal said, “Yet he is still demanding to speak out against me….” As if someone else should be able to decide whether he speaks out. Freedom of speech anyone?
All: If you are a BRAC or military parent you MUST review this story before considering where to purchase a house and educate your children in the Huntsville area. The school in question here is Williams Middle School located off of Zierdt Rd in Huntsville. Seriously guys, this is stupid.Do any of you KNOW how challenging it is to recruit for BRAC in today’s economy? Please no pontifcation here I am very much aware.
And how does this help our community? Its inflammatory and detrimental to our community. Now I know one of you all will respond by calling me a liberal or a democrat like its a bad thing, but based on some of outlandish claims and the outright right wing propoganda that is published on this page, Im really with that.
On the other hand, if they are readers on this blog we probably dont need anymore right wing conservative wacko’s.
We clearly have enough.
I continue to be amazed by Austin and Bob who seem content to allow school officials to contact ANY parent’s employer. We are in a place in time in this country and this city where efforts to break away from the established city (or country even) are being given more and more thought by people who would never have even considered such things 2 years ago. Austin and Bob seem to feel that calling them nut jobs and such is a solution. I live in SE Huntsville and would seriously like to have our section of the city succeed from the City of Huntsville because it no longer wants to hear from us but only to take our tax dollars. Did CJ give up all rights when he became a soldier? If he was so threatening the police should have been called and NOT his boss. More and more government officials at all levels are operating in dictatorial fashions and many people believe that the damage they are doing might not be able to be fixed by a new election so the only other option is to remove ourselves from your society. The mayor will do nothing about the HHA because he fears it will take some money from corrupt officials and be seen as a negative among the “let the government pay me” types that support him. Many people including myself feel that we are being pushed back into a corner and we will eventually come out fighting, the time to fix things and make people feel like this is still their country is now, it will be too late in a few more years. So Austin/Bob take your shots and belittle this but I speak for a lot of folks who are not going to post here or any other medium, they are just seething in their own homes and waiting for someone to take the reins and give them a target. We need to remove corrupt officials and those with “god” complexes such as many in our school system and do it soon. I am one of those nut jobs that believe there may be a day of reckoning coming soon. I will be supporting any school board candidate who will support removal of the current disgrace that is our superintendent of schools. Ms. Robinson I hope to help you to your retirement along with most of our elected city officials.
Sorry about the rant, I did make an effort to stay on topic :)
Douglas C. Meeks
Austin,
I disagree that this hurts the community. If the situation is as portrayed here, then it helps the community by bringing attention to a problem that needs to be fixed. It hurts to let incompetent leaders stay in their positions.
Also, I’m not sure how in a down economy it is harder to recruit people. It should be the opposite since workers have less options and will therefore move to stay employed.
How ’bout this, Austina:
Get the facts into the open where they belong and let potential BRAC personnel make their own decisions. Your “solution” is to hush up the “troublemaker” and allow the perpetrator to get off free and clear.
Williams, Moore and the whole lot of those involved should lose TAXPAYER FUNDED jobs AND be sued personally for libel and defamation. In particular, Williams needs to be run out of on a rail.
If the “community” is so worried about hurting its image maybe it needs to consider that when hiring school employees.
@victoria_29 Agreed. This starts with knowing the candidate that you’re voting for School Board.
@Bama Guy
Liberal,Liberal, blah, blah, blah. You really dont hurt my feelings when you resort to name calling. It’s so adolescent. Bama Guy, I bet your ugly and your mother dresses you funny. Seriously, I would like to for one time have a discussion here without it reverting to liberal/conservative or democrat/republican…wake up guys there are opposing views and thats ok. But don’t assume that because I ask logical questions or question CJ’s merits that I am somehow a liberal because I am not.
I have 2 children that attend school. Political leanings have nothing to do with people making an a@@ of themselves. Well maybe it does i.e. (Joe Wilson/Jesse Jackson).
I am simply saying to work within the system. Don’t start a crusade just because you dont like the answer you get. What has CJ gained by all this if its truly for the kids and the injustice by the Huntsville City School System? A little notoriety for himself and a platform to rail against liberals. I dont get it.
Again, this whole argument escapes me. I assure you guys there is another perspective of this story that is not so flattering to CJ.
In closing, what have you taught your children if when you don’t receive the answer you want they observe you being disruptive, excitable, and unpredicatable with your actions and responses?
Just a hint:
@CJ, when attorney’s locally tell you that they won’t take your case because they are aware of how it might impact the school system, they are really just being polite. They probably have found your case meritless.
Hint when local attorneys refuse to take case it doesn’t mean that it is meritless, it means that they don’t want to rock the boat, good old boy system at work.
Austin – you criticize others for name-calling after doing it yourself? There are names for that.
You’re a liberal, or “confused”, or just plain wrong – and yes, that’s a bad thing when you support or condone corruption – as you clearly do.
The school system did something outrageously wrong and apparently lied about it. We’re trying to fix it, as is our right. THROUGH THE SYSTEM! Hiding the problem does nothing to address the problem.
BTW, impugning CJ’s motives is despicable – before all this happened, the Army had planned for him to move to Ft. Hood. He won’t be here – and I think that the school bureaucrats were hoping to outlast him thinking that they could get away with it.
All, this is not a conserv/liberal issue. Enough of that foolishness.
This is about the HSV schools trying to damage a service member’s career over a school policy disagreement. School officials then lied about it.
I hope BRAC folks read this. I would rather make it widely known than sweep it under the rug.
I am so surprised that CJ can’t find a lawyer? Lawyers, what’s going? Are they (lawyers) too afraid to take on the school board? Surely there is one lawyer who want to help CJ make a case. CJ might have to go out of HSV to get a lawyer. I hope this case doesn’t turn into a racial case. I see it coming. BTW, who hired Avis as a principle? Who hired Ann?
Where oh where is the quotable Morris Brooks, Attorney at Law?
That is a great question. Mo Brooks is active on this blog but has not weighed in. He is an attorney and should speak out on this issue but does not want to hurt his precious chances at his “I’m the Savior for the 5th district” race.
Finally, someone gets it!
First, I am not a lawyer. I married one though. I have found that when I ask a legal question about a situation, the answer usually comes back “It depends on all the facts.” We have no reason to believe Mo knows all the facts, so why should he give his legal opinion?
If he were to give his opinion without knowing the facts, I am sure some would criticize him for that. Since he is running for office, it makes sense for him to comment on situations he is informed about and remain silent on those he doesn’t. It seems silly to criticize him for no commenting.
For the record, I am not a Mo supporter although I may end up voting for him.
Tom, I like Les, but his obnoxious online supporters are really souring me.
FYI, I asked Mo to refrain from using the blog for campaign purposes. Every topic is not about Mo or Les. This is a city issue. Not county or federal. Please do not make a habit of derailing comment threads with this “where is Morris” foolishness. It does nothing to get HSV to mend the damage they did to CJ’s career.
Everyone: I dont want to hush CJ I just want him to make his argument in the most cogent way possible.
He already has. You obviously made your judgement without reading anything that has been written probably because CJ is a military man. I know this is not a conservative/liberal thing but I do believe the reactions we are seeing on this blog to this travesty of justice can be separated into a just that. Why anyone would want to cover this up is beyond me. But I also do not understand a superintendant and principal acting in such a way and lying.
@BamaGuy, I have spoken with several of the participants on the other side and they are just as outraged by CJ’s behavior.
I assure you, I dont want a cover up, if they are found to be liars fire everyone of them but I think it prudent to get both sides of the story before passing judgement dont you?
In fact, please show me where I called for a “cover up” in any of my postings. You can’t and you know why?
Because that’s what “conservatives” do..when you don’t have a logical answer….attack. There really is no opportunity to have reasonable dialogue with you all but I do respect the community here on flashpoint.
Austin explain what “behavior” they are “outraged” of. I’m very interested. I think you’ll find that the people that are “outraged” work for the school and the people who support me are parents! In any case, please explain what “behavior” of mine was so grievous as to cause outrage. Thank you.
@Austin
It has been laid out to you in black in white.
Dr. Moore told me, School Board Member Dr. Robinson and everyone else no one contacted the military.
The e-mail records tell a different story.
It has been mapped out. What more do you need.
Dr. Moore and the board owe CJ and his family an apology, the board also needs to acknowledge using a military liason to attempt to crush dissent is wrong and unacceptable.
Austin, I think the fact that you expressed distaste for an author of this blog wanting to alert potential BRAC transfers to this situation and mentioned how hard it may be to get people to move here are examples that you would prefer a cover-up of this situation rather than letting them know. What else should be inferred from your comments in that vein?
CJ, I’m a retired Lieutenant Colonel and support you 100 per cent.
I can empathsize with your dilemma and will support you to the end. Particularly noteworthy is that your “completed staff work” is bullet proof. I’ll be at the meeting this afternoon because I have three grandchildren in the school system and your problem is only the tip of the iceberg.
Speak out folks or your kids will grow up to be sheep instead of sheepdogs.
Good luck in court. I would be considered a leftist ‘liberal’ bla bla bla. I don’t understand what that has to do with any of this but I fully support you and might even show up at the next meeting. I don’t have any kids yet, and certainly not in that school system but we have to make an example. As soon as people get in power they seem to think they can do whatever they want. We see this in politics constantly and nothing’s done about it. We NEED to get angry, we NEED to do something. Bickering and whining without action just keeps the problem going. Good luck and stick it to em’ CJ.
Thanks, Robert. This is cliche, but I have plenty of “leftist liberal” friends. I don’t agree with all Conservatives either. I’ve been one of the few people who have stood up in support of the morons in IVAW who have been attacked for using their first amendment rights to simply talk. Those refusing to deploy are another issue that I will NEVER support.
I’m a realist. I’m a Constitutionalist. I’m a Libertarian. I love freedom and despise tyranny in all its forms. I carry a US Constitution with me 100% of the time. IF you ever see me in public, call me on it! I swore an oath to defend that document and the rights protected by it.
In any case, thank you for your support. This isn’t a right or left issue. It’s a right and wrong issue. Interestingly, I think the other parents who have been fighting alongside me on this who were also refused an opportunity to speak are getting overshadowed by my case. This isn’t about me at all. I’m one part in this puzzle, but many other parents have been affected by Principal Williams, her teachers, and Dr. Moore.
“Silent? NO Moore!” I never was good at spelling.
Ok, Austin. Get a grip, focus on what the adults are saying.
What information, pray tell, compels you to make it a partisan issue? I have dealt with Huntsville city officials and I can tell you they are, for the most part, obnoxious, condescending, and arrogant. I contacted Bill Kling’s office about an issue, spoke with his secretary, and she ended up hanging up on me.
I relayed the problem and simply asked: “What do I have to do to get resolution, get an attorney?” With God as my witness, she replied: “Excuse me?!!” I repeated my statement. She told me, “Sir, I’m not allowed to discuss this further.”
When I asked “Why?”, she told me, “Anytime somebody mentions hiring an attorney in conjunction with a problem with the city, we are no longer allowed to discuss it, good-bye.” CLICK
I can only recommend you do a 180 and step back through the looking glass.
CJ: If you had the entire incident to do over again, would you have done anything different and if so, how different would you have handled it?
The only thing I would have done differently is recorded the first meeting. I’ve done NOTHING wrong in my mind. I’ve tried to handle this one on one with the school and they have refused to meet with me out of some mythical fear. No, I would have done nothing differently.
CJ: Another question. How has your military career been damaged? Because you are a Master Sergeant, can you have further promotions? I ask this because others keep saying “get an attorney”. To have much of a case one has to prove “damages”. Also, I do not believe lot of people realize what attorney fees would be. Thanks
Will, I’m not going to go into the legal merits of the case until it is resolved. I am seeking legal representation and I would think the actions of the Principal and Superintendent were enough, regardless of what it does or doesn’t do to my career.
Probably the reason a lawyer will not take the case is the money (although my hubby says they’re just being [Reactionary edit - no matter how much I agree with your characterization, please remember that children read this blog], to which I can agree to some extent). C’mon, who’s got more power in this case? Sadly, the school system does, which is disgusting. It’s no wonder the school officials have the gall to harass CJ and his family, because they are accustomed to having their asses being kissed, and can’t stand even civil confrontation. Of course they feel threatened! “How dare a parent question me!”
CJ has every civilian and parental right to pursue this issue.
1) The principals, superintendent, and PTA president made it personal first by bringing his employer into it. Now his career, name, and potential to earn to care for his family has been damaged, which very well may have a detrimental affect upon the rest of his life if not challenged.
2) This is an ethical issue. To allow the corruption, which currently educates and oversees…. how many children??? is dangerous to the well-being of the students. Not only that, but how deep does the corruption go? Definitely worth pushing for further investigation when these folks are being funded by taxpayer dollars. Keep em’ honest, CJ!
CJ my husband recommended forming an affidavit (or a petition?). Get the witnesses and parents who were there. Although, you probably are more knowledgeable on these kinds of things than we are.
It seems to me a whole lot of people within the Huntsville school system should be fired or at the very least allowed to resign. These “civil servants” seem to serve only themselfs. They appear to be hatefull and full of themselfs. Go for it, its seems they should be looking for work, not working with children.
When you clear away all the “crap”, you acutally have just a few issues.
#1 being a soldier is irrelevant in this case.
#2 stay clear from the emotional highs of the controvery. (regardless of emotion involved, stay in control)
# 3 state only the problems/issues…
from CJ’s side
uniform timing, uniform decision, contacting employer, involving the children
From the school’s side
unruly or threatening parent, safety issues (in this day in time if the threats preceived were real, would be irresponsible not to act on)
All the other stuff is “crap” that needs to be cleared away when looking at this situation.
Sorry folks…its quite clear. CJ has a legit. concern how things were handled and the attempts to harm his career.
If my child attended that school and there was a preceived danger and all you did was call his employer. Then that is irresponsible. What if the parent worked for Walmart? What would happen…we would get “falling prices?”
If the training they receive at the school district does not do better training on handling threatening situations, then more than one person needs to resign!
The uniform problem with parents input is now an after the fact thorn in the school’s side. Step aside Mr. CJ and let another parent carry that torch. No uniforms until next year is your victory. Lets not get petty. Sometimes just knowing your right is enough.
If it is proven that your employer was contacted. Laws WERE violated. The two who seeminlg knew of the violation, (those two) Should resign or be terminated without hesitation. If they are not, you have the option of hiring an atty.
If your children were harrassed in anyway or singled out….Laws WERE violated.
I can’t beleive that you can’t find an atty, put your energy into finding one!
There are no real winners in this situation and the children are the ones that are the real loosers no matter what the total out come will be…damage has been done…don’t make it any worse for them. The biggest violation in this whole situation is against the children.
BTW..I am a Conservative…PARENT….no other title needed for me. Regardless, of my ranking or degrees or political status. In some situations I have learned to just be the PARENT.
Not bad for my first blog response?
I urge everyone who hasn’t done so to watch the videos CJ posted at his website. There are two videos, one from CJ and one from another camera. They’re long, but well worth the viewing.
http://www.soldiersperspective.us/2009/11/03/picking-up-the-pieces/
It is very fortunate for us that CJ recorded the meeting, so that we can evaluate the actions of both parties.
Keep in mind that this was a PTA meeting. After the PTA President failed to follow basic rules of order, CJ objected and offered to “educate” her. And he objected. And made motions. And so on. The school security guard came over to CJ and told the crowd to raise their hands to be heard. CJ raised his hand.
The next part is unbelievable, except that you can see it and hear it on the video. A Huntsville City Police Officer approached CJ and told him to put his hand down. To repeat – an armed Police Officer told CJ at a PTA meeting to lower his hand. This is an issue that HPD needs to address.
This travesty of a meeting continued, and you can see how poorly the meeting was run, as well as the evasiveness of the principal when asked about a sham of a phone survey.
Then someone brought up the fact that CJ is a soldier. CJ responded that he was there as a parent with 3 kids in the school. I cringed when CJ slapped the table and left the meeting, but I also understand that his career had just been threatened. Why was his career threatened? Because of his insistence that the PTA follow Robert’s Rules of Order. That is outrageous. BTW, CJ was right – the PTA was out of order.
We are also fortunate that another parent brought a camera and recorded the meeting after CJ left. Watch the second video, I guarantee that you will be appalled. You will see that other parents were not allowed to speak. You’ll hear other parents state that “they’re baiting us”. You’ll hear the principal state that she will choose “people I can work with” for a Parents Advisory Committee. You’ll hear a mother of five defending herself against the PTA Representative, saying “how dare you attack me”.
And if you watch until the bitter end, you’ll hear the PTA say “we need help with fundraising”…
Crawford…love your candor! Anyway…
To all barracks lawyers, …Legal action that may be available is in the category of “easy to say, not so easy to do”.
First of all, there’s the issue of attorney’s fees. I am painfully aware of attorney’s fees and I don’t know of an attorney who will take the case for less than a $5,000 retainer fee. Wanna chip in???
Next, although he may have a cause of action for defamation, it takes a realistic look at what he may get versus what he has to invest. Realistically, if he could find an attorney, it would probably not even hit the system until after CJ leaves the area. At that point, airfare back and forth would probably cost more than he would receive in damages.
Was his reputation damaged? Probably. Was his family inconvenienced beyond measure? Probably.
Allow me to be calloused. I wouldn’t know CJ if he ran over me. In his mind, I’m guessing it’s about principle. It’s about what is right, what is wrong, and leaving behind a community that was better than when he arrived. Some things you just can’t put a price tag on…this is one of them and I salute him. I suspect that CJ expects people with courage to carry on the fight.
Some say the uniform issue is irrelevant. I disagree. It’s a public school where a large part of the students get free meals because of economic disadvantages. Many families have 2 or 3 children attending the same school. Now, throw in an extra expense for uniforms: $200 for one; $400 for two; $600 for three – what’s in YOUR wallet???
OMG! I watched the videos! Please put the videos on YouTube! More people need to see them. I am outraged and disgusted…
There is a Huntsville City School Board meeting tonight “at 5:30pm tonight in the Boardroom at 200 White Street.” This issue may come up at that meeting.
Unfortunately, there is no mention of the meeting on the website for the city schools and the school board.
I am not sure if video is allowed. I would think it would be. For those who may be unable to attend the meeting, it would be nice if someone who can go to videotape it.
Security alert!!
Videographer in aisle 2!
I believe the School Board Meetings are televised
You can watch the school board meetings at http://www.ustream.tv/channel/etv-huntsville-live
Reactionary…
Huntsville’s finest are, well,…debatable. Most are good folks.
I complained about a neighbor’svideo camera that was on MY fence, pointed across MY swimming pool and aimed at MY master bedroom.
Huntsville’s finest came out and told me, “There is no law against it, if you don’t like it, you can move to the country.” (Documented)
Anything else need to be said?
Excuse me, HPD’s at the door.
I am thinking that some people here need to break the chains of the left/right paradigm. See the talking squawk boxes use these terms to trap people into voting / supporting a particular brand of kool-aid when the election cycles roll around.
At the end of the day, both sides of the paradigm are working together in back room deals for the most part. Then when it’s time to distribute the cups, they end up giving everyone the cheap stuff (Flavor-aid) and well.. you know the rest…..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWhCz2A6z5o
Good luck to you this evening CJ, I am glad that your a soldier who understands what it means to defend this country. I wish you and your family the best.
meant to say “you’re” not your wish there was a preview button..
What a farce! Most of you folks have it upside down.
No wonder we can’t win a war. We have soldiers who get in a hissy fit snit about school uniforms and can’t even show respect to a school principal. The very fact that he has carried on like this shows a screw is loose.
Some people just want to cause trouble… and along the way they act as magnets to pick up other loose screws and screwballs
And what is sad is that even though vile people like you exist and spit on our soldiers, they are still willing to give their life for you. Would not expect you to understand, but most of us do and cannot express our gratitude enough.
@CJ, all of this aside, thank you for your service. I am sorry to see you leave our community but I pray that you will be united with your family again and God’s blessings will flow.
No spitting on soldiers here — most soldiers are deserving of great respect. I’m just pointing out the obvious.
Good soldiers get respect because they know how to give respect.
Sandy whose going to be left for you when the stormtroopers take everyone else off to the gulag?
This man is standing up and fighting for what he believes is right and yet you seem to feel he should just sit down and shut up? HAHA… you’re worse than Jay Rockefeller..
No spitting on soldiers here, you wacko false flag waiver. Most soldiers are deserving of great respect. I’m just pointing out the obvious that CJ isn’t acting like I would expect a soldier to act.
Good soldiers get respect because they know how to give respect.
@Sandy. There is only one thing obvious about your comment to all of us that have read it and it has nothing to do with CJ. But continue to malign our soldiers. They will continue to protect you whether you deserve it or not.
Will, Sandy is the kind that does not understand freedom and liberty and who it is that makes sure we continue to enjoy it. Its all about her. So, I would not spend too much time trying to reason with her. Anyone who loves this country is considered a wacko to her.
Wow… it;s worse than I thought…
Stormtroopers… gulag…???????
What a bunch of nuts…
Don’t you people understand that it’s your conflation of a comment about one person who happens to be a soldier into a slur against all soldiers that is very Nazi like and basically unAmerican
Sadly.. you don’t…
And when YOU come…. I’ll be standing with the other good people of the world!
Thanks for the laughs
Apparently, you’re the nut. You have forgotten history, so you are doomed to repeat it. Dissent is ingrained at a social level in this country. Maybe you have forgotten the fact that our forefathers told King George to take a hike 233 years ago, because his taxes were to high and his treatment of the colonies were to bad. MAYBE you have forgotten that our schools have been taken over by bureaucrats that want nothing more but to release more dumbed down souls into to this grand country that will continually drink the ever spewing Kool-aid coming from the hills in Washington.
Maybe if you studied a little more history and had gotten a clue, you’d realize that CJ is standing up for his kids right to have a proper education and the fact that it is not right for the school to implement policies that will affect the parents during the mid-term of a school year.
Then again, I’m thinking that you’re just another lost soul who doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
.. The Stormtroopers comment.. I’m afraid your little pea-brain would explode trying to understand it.
OK- I HAVE TO SPEAK UP AS A “LIBERAL”, LOL! I am a democrat and I do believe in certain social liberties. However, this has absolutely nothing to do with politics. And, I am happy that the media has picked up CJ’s story. Sometimes you have to behave a little outlandishly to get any attention. I work full time and two kids at Williams, one in Kindergarten. It is my hope that what will come of all of this is a new principal and an understanding by the administration that parents do have a right to express dissention with school policy. THEY ARE OUR CHILDREN AT THE END OF THE DAY. Thank you CJ for all that you do and have done.
@Sandy. So, why don’t you tell us all how CJ is a bad soldier. Why don’t you give us a run down of his service and how he has served our country so badly that he deserves you to spit on him like you have. We are waiting although I doubt you will be able to come up with anything as I doubt you even know what and where he has been.
Sandy: I am another Will–not the one that disagreed with you. This Will agrees with you. I was unbiased until I just watched the 2 videos and I am of the opinion the Sgt. was only there to disrupt the PTA meeting with all the Roberts Rules of Order stuff. I don’t buy into all the talk about him fighting for our country and then being denied his right to disrupt a PTA meeting. I served in an elite Army Infantry outfit in a major war this country fought and received awards for valor. Does this give me some special right to attend any meeting and disrupt it. The answer is no–and I should be thrown out.
Will
@TheNewWill – First, thank your for your service to our country. You deserve our gratidude. Unlike Sandy, I will not malign you regardless of whether we agree on a topic or not.
However, I can’t comprehend someone in the military not understanding the need for rules. Roberts Rules is not just stuff. It allows for fair open and honest debate. However, it was the administration who refused to allow that. You are attacking CJ and assigning to him motives that you can not possibly know. Maybe, you don’t like what CJ had to say but he did have the right to say it and obviously other parents agreed. So, instead of supporting a dictorial administration and a woman (Sandy) who continues to make vile comments of not only a brother soldier but others as well, maybe you should support CJ’s right to address his grievences.
I served in an elite Army Infantry outfit in a major war this country fought and received awards for valor. Does this give me some special right to attend any meeting and disrupt it. The answer is no–and I should be thrown out.
Bravo, Will
This folks, is real courage and grace.
Goodnight!
…and to the other Will (who apparently never went beyond third grade history).
Well, I do teach history… and at the college level.
Night, night, folks! My pea brain has a book to finish…
Think I’m going to have to call BS on the teaching history. Have fun reading Green Eggs and Ham, I heard it was a good book.
@Sandy, so the only soldier you support is someone who supports your twisted views. I see. And we wonder why our education system is suffering.
LOL! Llittle non-elite soldier Will (ie) [as opposed to brave bravo Will] only “heard” – but never read — the 4th best selling English language children’s of all time.
I would not, could not, in this box.
I could not, would not, with a fox (news).
I will not seat them in my house.
I will not seat the cowardly mouse.
I will not meet him here or there.
I will not greet him anywhere.
I do not eat green eggs and ham.
Nor pretentious soldiers, Sandy-I-am.
Looks like satire and sarcasm always seem to fail you. Bamaguy asks you legitimate questions, and yet you refute to attacking me in a childish manner. Now while I can admit I am ever ready to stand guard, I would at least give him the decency to answer his question.
Other than that, you’re right I’m a non-elite soldier. I have never served in the army, nor do I have a desire to. My own feelings on that are neither here nor now.
I still have to call BS on you being a history teacher. Then again, I did stumble upon one that acted in a manner similar to yourself in 2005 at UA.
Oh well… maybe you can get a gig reading nursery rhymes to the kids at Williams, you seem to have a good delivery. thumbs up
I agree with another poster… if CJ worked at Wal-Mart would they have contacted his employer? NO! The only reason they contacted his employer was to cause damage to his career. Absolutely nothing he could do would have warranted his employer being called.
CJ, attorneys in this city and most of this country do not like to accept slander/defamation cases. It has nothing to do with whether the case has merit or not. File a case yourself! You have proof… videos, radio shows, emails…. request a jury trial. You do not need an attorney.
The city schools will have little to worry about with BRAC. They are spending a lot of time and money trying to entice them to come but the truth is that people with children will NOT be choosing Hsv as their home. The majority will be moving to Madison or the county because the schools here are so bad. Unless their children are homeschooled or private schooled they will be living outside the city of Huntsville!
Well I will try to keep this short, I just watched the school board meeting (thanks for the link to the live feed) and have a few main comments.
1. I might give Dr. Robinson a bit more rope, she at least made an effort to tell the truth as she saw it. Remains to be seen how that will play out.
2. Our Supt of schools proved herself to be a liar of immense proportion and all but said she approved of contacting employers and blew that subject off by saying it was all about conduct. What a pompous pig.
3. The idiot who was shouting by the end of his tirade about ’someone bringing terror into our schools” needs to be examined. Looks like a future serial killer to me ..
4. I thought I might throw up if I had to listen to much more back pounding from teachers from Williams. I am not going to make any comment on the quality of education there because I don’t know, but it seems that the supt has once again found another person of like mindedness who would rather handle any contrary discussion with the subtlety of Hitler. We really need to get these people out of town. I have to assume that any teacher from Williams was there to protect their a$$ or kiss up to the new boss.
Douglas C. Meeks
A small case in point of all the back pounding from the teachers at the board meeting to put some more perspective on it. Leigh Harrison, the 7th grade science teacher, was one of the teachers to make derogatory comments about my husband at the first uniform meeting. Anything she said that night just made my eyes roll.
Another point to make, and I’ll let Cj make any more rhetoric if people want to be nasty about it, yes, we know that the principal made the first contact. The PTA made the next several.
After we moved our kids, while we were still with them several states away, we know the principal contacted Garrison, whether through the liaison or directly (that i don’t know) twice. She complained of how the video made her look.
Argue all you want, the issue isn’t that they contacted just once, but that they kept contacting and kept contacting many times over-even after the Super told us, in a meeting with several other parents, that the principal would not be the one to decide if an employer was contacted. And, that if the principal felt the need to do so, the Super would be the one to make that decision and contact.
My husband has never had ANY direct contact with the Principal or the PTA since this thing started other than e-mails. Funny enough, the complaints stopped once i took over ownership of the site.
The principal needs to learn how to deal with parents that won’t agree with her. I know of a parent that vocally, rudely, and loudly disagreed with her on another matter, whom she sent a letter to a few days later stating that she was no longer allowed on school grounds. She contacted Ms Shipman, who told her that the principal can’t make that sort of decision, and it’s in the handbook.
It’s been proven over and over again that this principal has control and integrity issues and thinks she can implement anything she wants. And it sucks that you have the super backing her up at any cost.
I find it interesting that the gentleman douglas meeks referred to under #3 showed his concern, intolerance, and anger about the inappropriate behavior of CJ, and his concern for the safety at the school, did have sense enough to control himself, though very upset, and shut his mouth and sit down when asked to do so. Meeks is right, the gentleman does need to be examined, by CJ. Please examine this gentleman’s use of common sense and take note CJ! Be upset, but use good sense and shut up when asked to do so, and make your issue known up the chain of command. CJ, you should know this!
I support Williams!
Right on Sargeant. I agree with you whoeheartedly. The Huntsville Schools leadership is a joke and they better wake up that in education the children come first instead of stupid policies and stupid people.
In reply to Douglas Meeks. Tell it like it is. Get these stupid people out of town. Just because a parent wants to meet and talk about a stupid and costly policy stuffed down their (parents) throats the the school claim terrorism. Give me a break. Run these stupid people out of town.
All you folks on here who piss and moan about the situation and do nothing, would you just shuttup. You make me sick. Crawford above was right, you bunch of P*****s.
You are so self-righteous and think you know every damn thing about every damn situation, yet, you are as short sighted as a piss ant. You jump on a blog like this and vent your spleen and walk off waiting for your post to appear and walk back to check the board hoping for someone to give you a frickin’ trophy comment. You’re a loser.
For those of you who didn’t go to the meeting, buzz off. You don’t deserve to even comment.
For those of you who watched it on whatever, did you see the security guard jump on the guy sitting next to me? The man raised his hand and tried to get the school boards attention in an effort to speak. The guard yelled at him, told him “ hey, sit down, somebody’s trying to speak!!”
There were four people who addressed the situation. Dale Jackson, Mr. Hightower, unknown man, unknown lady. I was videotaping, it was my first school board meeting and didn’t know you had to register in advance to speak.
For those of you who saw the moron who berated CJ as a TERRORIST, what the hell good did it do that you observed it? Those of us who boo’d the man were noted by the security guard who could not take notes fast enough.
Speaking of security, there were 3 huntsville police cars out front. How many police typically attend a school board meeting?
It reminded me of the DC rally. There was a 3 block square of ghetto thugs and my group saw 1, ONE cop. We arrived back at the motel where several tea partiers were staying and there were FOUR cops in the lobby standing shoulder to shoulder.
No wonder the country is in a downward spiral. You talk the talk but can’t get out off your fat butts to attend a meeting…
In a town the size of Huntsville, the people who have a vested interest in the Huntsville School system should have packed the auditorium and spilled over into the hallway.
And oh, I’m only a grandparent whose concerned about my grandchildren.
Pathetic, simply pathetic.
Uh, like you might need to look in the mirror “You are so self-righteous” and then proceed to tell us exactly how good you were :) I can only speak for myself, I have been to probably 100+ of those boring a$$ meetings when I DID have kids in the system (you been to that many oh righteous one?) so NO I did not go, I watched. I support the cause and write my opinions (uh, isn’t that what a blog is for??) I am sure that ANYONE would feel it was a mob if people with NO valid interest in the meeting showed up only for one that was a fight looking to happen. I think your blindness to your own ever so “pathetic” “self-righteous” rant sounds more like a “see how good I am” rant to me. I will be at the medical mall tomorrow because THAT does involve me, you gonna be there? Since I was the only one who posted that I observed it I have to assume you are speaking to me with your half-a$$ed opinions and I respond in kind. Your rant was so hypocritical that your insults become a joke. I was working to try to make this a better place long ago and still am. Glad you are so pure in motive that you can throw out insults to we “pathetic” beings. I am proud that numerous folks with valid interests showed up and even pathetic ones like yourself went so you could come back here with little or no information and call us names.
Douglas C. Meeks
jazzetc
Considering that I made a comment earlier about whether or not videocameras would be allowed at the meeting and that it would be nice if someone could videotape it, I find it unfortunate that you called those who did not go to the meeting lazy by saying, “You talk the talk but can’t get out off your fat butts to attend a meeting….” I don’t know about everyone else who didn’t attend the meeting and what their reasons may have been. Many people are able to attend events like this at 5:30 because that time works for them. However, some other people may have valid reasons for which they are unable to attend events like this at 5:30. Some people have longer or different work hours, have children which they couldn’t bring to a meeting and for whom they can’t find a babysitter, or have various other obligations which prevent them from attending meetings like this. Please try to keep other possibilities in mind in the future.
Stand by, oh Meek one…get right back to ya.
and you will get the “wrestling with pigs” comment. I say what I got to say and then you can rant forever.
dcm
will it be mud, jello or baby oil? :)
Blah, blah, blah, “…you get dirty and the pig likes it. Hope you like it, pig.
Not only should you attend more meetings as a show of force, maybe you should attend an English refresher course. Hubcap is more articulate and has more subject/verb agreements than your incoherent rant. I am sure that the school board was impressed beyond measure and fearful that YOU were in the background watching what happened on TV. (shiver, shiver) And OH, YOUR BLOG comments scared the crap out of me and the school board…not!
What in hell does this mean? Here is YOUR quote: “I am sure that ANYONE would feel it was a mob if people with NO valid interest in the meeting showed up only for one that was a fight looking to happen.” First of all, I will not even attempt to interpret what you meant. It is an embarrassing collection of unintelligible words.
Are you saying that, I have no valid interest in the education of my grandchildren? Surely you can’t be that stupid.
And as far as attending HUNDREDS of meetings, I’m calling BS. Do the math, cowboy.
And what medical credentials do you, oh mystic one, possess that gives you the ability to read my mind and determine my motives for attending this meeting tonight?
If you had the perceptual acuity of a pecan, you would have realized that my comment regarding simply watching it on tv was not an indictment against you personally, but, an overall indictment for those who were too lazy to attend.
If not for your moronic tirades, I would have complimented you for at least watching it on tv, internet, whatever.
Get back on your meds or get over your shortcomings.
You know from my post you can tell that I support CJ fully. And my kids are in madison county and private so I don’t really have any standing at this time other than as a concerned citizen in this area.
But, really we don’t need jerks like you in our cause. You hurt more than you help. So please, stay home next time. And stay away from the health care debate. I don’t want to see another sign telling the government to keep their hands off the medicare. We can defeat this government monstrosity if we offer clear and coherent debate, something I am sure you will not be able to do. Sounds like you may be going a little senile.
Note to Douglas Meeks: We need all attendees at the medical mall rally, HOWEVER,…
No, I will not be at the rally tomorrow. Tomorrow is Friday and the rally is Saturday, moron. I’ll be in a white pickup truck. See ya!
“perceptual acuity of a pecan” Roget’s thesaurus gets kudos for that one. I can almost see you foaming at the mouth :)
dcm
bamaguy
to whom do you refer? what sign are you referring to?
C’mon Doug. Roget? Give me a page number. It “ain’t” there. Wash your hands with Purell because the place you extracted that from is surely unsanitary. Drop it, guy. This is a fight for CJ and not about your animosity toward me.
OK Doug, let’s review:
You watched the school board meeting.
Came to the blog and wrote your comments concerning the utter disregard for the truth that the supt of schools exhibited and noted a crazy man was allowed to speak (not jazzetc).
Read post from jazzetc lambasting people who did not come to the meeting but merely observed.
Took exception to such lambasting in writing.
Was lambasted a bit more.
Refused to argue anymore.
Lambasted again.
Made Roget’s comment
Told to wash my hands and stop showing MY animosity.
Hmmm, I wish God would set off a whistle when he moved me to these alternate universes. I really get confused. Here I was thinking I was one of the good guys.
dcm
Can’t we all just get along :)
My, Rodney, how you’ve changed!
Professor Tom, love your sense of humor.
Reactionary, I agree with you. Sure, I can get along…
However, people need to understand the frustration in my post. In a city the size of Huntsville, there were ONLY four people who stood up for CJ.
FOUR people, out of how many THOUSANDS of people in Huntsville who have a stake in this fight?
You probably listen to WVNN. How many people called and complained?
I called and had to keep calling because the lines were busy. I never got through.
Thank God, Almighty, one of them has a microphone! Dale Jackson has a set you guys can only dream about. He laid it out in no uncertain terms. Out of the other three, the two who had pre-registered were passionate and compelling.
As for the one who had not registered, I honestly feared for his immediate freedom. And, the ONLY thing he did was stand up and attempt to interject his comments, which he was allowed to do at a later time. But, I thought the police were going to intervene, unnecessarily.
As long as certain folks don’t malign me, I won’t embarrass them.
Jazzetc,
Let me be the first to tell you that just because you don’t see activity above the surface doesn’t mean that something isn’t taking root underneath. Have a little faith.
Understood, Prof.,
And I have a lot of faith. The unseen, underneath the surface activity is critical to reclaiming America.
Plus, I know people work their butts off forwarding emails with dates, times, etc., of tea parties, rallies, seminars, etc. and folks respond the best they can within their means.
But, look at it from my perspective… In a town the size of Huntsville, do you think we could muster more than 10-12 people in support of CJ? It is not a matter of the merits of the cause, it’s a matter of apathy. Times are tough and they are going to get tougher and people need to face up to the facts. They need to “knuckle under” and fight NOW.
I wish you could have seen the smirk on Dr. Moore’s face. It was clearly one of those, “Is this all you got?” smirks.
Plus, I am real sensitive to insinuations about being self righteous after I have attended EVERY tea party rally from here to DC, including the last Tea party Express in Birmingham.
jazzetc,
You said:
“I wish you could have seen the smirk on Dr. Moore’s face. It was clearly one of those, ‘Is this all you got?’ smirks.”
Since you said earlier that you were videotaping the meeting tonight, do you plan on sharing it with others? Those of us (and I really can only speak for myself here) who had other things to do during the meeting and could neither attend in person nor watch the live video stream online might like to watch the video you took.
I’d be more than happy to share if I can figure out how to upload the video.
It’s a new JVC Everio HD. The software that came with it is not user friendly and I’ve got several hours of my grandchildren on the camera’s hard drive that I wish I could transfer to mycomputer hard drive or external hard drive. The software is terrible…any suggestions?
As for you not being able to attend, my earlier post was not directed at those who truly could not attend. There are countless circumstances that preclude folks from attending these meetings.
My comments were directed to folks who call in to WVNN, post on this forum, and then kick back and watch NCIS or whatever was on tonight. People need to sacrifice NOW or it will be too late.
If I can figure this movie stuff out, I’ll post it somewhere…even if I have to create a facebook or whatever…
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn’t a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
–Friedrich Gustav Emil Martin Niemöller
These brass heads have one big advantage over us and that is if we do what they want us to do, none of us will be alive to tell them they were wrong.
–JFK Thirteen Days
I couldn’t go to the meeting. One of my children had a sporting event. What special name do I deserve? I will tell you, though, that this story is not over.
Friendly reminder on dealing with people for all to remember:
Calling people – especially people who are on your team! – names (I’ve seen “morons” and worse above) is not helpful. How do you catch more flies?
Uh oh. The Huntsville City Schools will now call your employer about the terroristic threat you just made.\
Not everyone can go to meeting, don’t think for a second that Dr. Moore isn’t aware that this issue will not just go away.
That room was filled, the school board never sees that and they don’t like it.
More on topic “My, Rodney, how you’ve changed!”
I know that should mean something to me, but forgetting stuff is what I do best anymore. Gimme a hint.
“I wish you could have seen the smirk on Dr. Moore’s face. It was clearly one of those, “Is this all you got?” smirks.”
Been looking at that same smirk since the School Board hired her over a wealth of more qualified candidates and WTF the real reason was I may never know, you might remember that that bunch of goons had just paid the former “new” supt of schools a TON of money to leave town (if anyone really knows the story there I am curious and this is probably not the forum). Maybe she was the cheapest or they wanted to be more “diverse” but she must be a good politician or she would be gone by now but there is always hope. I can tell you from numerous complaints I made over the years that the local politicians (mayor and city council) will not touch ANYTHING to do with the school board. Even Sandra Moon who usually is up for a fight will not take up any cause that involves them. Obviously there is more power there than we can see; so even though I would hope a new mayor/city council would help I doubt it. I can vote against 1 member of the board but I can assure you also that at least 3 of them pretty much have lifetime appointments from the people in their districts (I am sure folks in another district must really love to hear their school board rep not even be able to put together a cohesive sentence, geezus it was embarrassing). I guess my point to all this verbiage is that while I hope to have an impact on the school board it seems that I could only vote against the one member who at least thought there MIGHT be a problem. Fighting the school board is a usually unrewarding experience, you win some battles but you never win the war. Remember that every principal that was not in place before Big Ugly got the job now owes his/her job to the supt, kinda like a private army of supporters. They can marshal support from their schools to show up at these meetings and at least make it look like “we really tried and we have a really great school and principal” so unless you have one of the real nuts like the one that brought the Muslim women in to teach a few years ago (there was a REAL nutjob) they won’t be fired. In fact if someone remembers that incident I don’t think she was EVER fired I think she kinda went nuts and moved or something. Oh well this is a ramble now…..
I gotta work on summaries my son just educated me on what tl;dr meant on facebook.
“That room was filled, the school board never sees that and they don’t like it.”
Thanks, I had forgotten that, they even mentioned that they did not get this many people for the budget meetings. Looks like there was adequate support for the cause. The 2 real problems are
1. Calling employers (which my read was sanctioned by the supt)
2. Fire the principal which ain’t gonna happen folks :)
Did I misread this?
dcm
You got it.
The firing and resigning stuff is not going to happen.
They need to set a policy that prevents this in the future and apologize. That should be the goal.
Dale,
While I understand where you’re coming from, I must most humbly disagree. Both the principle and the superintendent lied. They defrauded C.J. Grisham and they defrauded the people of Huntsville. For that, I think both ought to be replaced and the way to do this is to put pressure on the Board, our elected officials.
I agree Tom but when you can only vote for one member and I am not overstating the facts when I say that at least 3 of them have what amounts to lifetime appointments. You will get the least amount of action that will shut up the greatest amount of people, that will NOT be anyone’s head on a platter (as much as that would be justice). In my 30+ years of dealing with the Huntsville School system I have a lot more faith in my ability to make Obama a 1 term president than I do getting ANYONE removed from the cult that is the Alabama educational system. This is not restricted to Huntsville.
Douglas C. Meeks
Doug,
Yes, it may be true that I can only vote for one person, but that doesn’t mean I can’ donate time and money to campaigns outside of my district.
In that case Tom I commend your persistent determination and obviously support your ultimate goal :)
dcm
ps: Just in case anyone thinks I sit around waiting for replies, I get an email alert whenever there is a post and so I just jump into another window and post a reply while interrupting my game of Farm Town or Fishville or whatever useless endeavor I am involved in
jazzetc
Regarding any suggestions on uploading the video of the meeting, I wish I had some, but I do not know much about that either. Anyone else have any suggestions on how he can do that?
I’m not good at talking through these things, but pretty good at computers. What file format are the videos saved in? Does the camera show up as a separate hard drive when plugged into the computer? Is the camera’s filing system accessible without going through the provided software?
Personally, I prefer to use Windows Movie Maker for most of my videos and haven’t had any issues. I do use another program for more professional and complex videos.
CJ,
Please tell me you’re a FCP man.
Tom, I’m not, but our next big computer will most likely be an Apple and will gladly switch over to FCP.
Have you seen the 27″ iMacs? Man they sure are sweet.
Let me know when you get your Mac and I’ll arrange a housewarming party for it. :P
The only thing you really have to know is:
1. What format is it in
2. Can you locate it on your computer (or as mentioned does your camera show up as a removeable hard drive)
3. Size of the file.
With those pieces of info I can upload pretty much anything to someplace, I feel the size might be the problematic thing here and might exclude Facebook and others
dcm
CJ: Did you in fact get demoted from First Sergeant to Master Sergeant as reported in the newspaper this morning? If so I don’t believe I have read that in any of the prior posts.
No, and I corrected the reporter. He is issuing a correction in tomorrow’s paper. I was NOT, nor have I ever been, demoted in the Army. In August, I moved from a First Sergeant position to a Master Sergeant position. It’s a natural progression and just reflects the difference between two differen job positions.
I just finished reading the article in the Huntsville Times (Fri., Nov. 20th). The article states that “Grisham acknowledged standing up on his seat and slamming his fist at the parent meeting, but said his behavior was not alarming.” That one action is enough to cause alarm and to have a person removed from a meeting. The article also states that the liaison officer was contacted but not Grisham’s commanding officer. Yet the comments in the blog indicate that his employer was contacted. The liaison officer is not his employer. Therefore, school system officials were correct in stating that his employer was not contacted by an employee of the school system.
Have you watched the video John. You have already made a judgement but have you even taken the time to look at all the facts. CJ slammed his fist down and left the meeting. He did not have to be ejected. After watching the video, I was slamming my fist also in frustration. And please, standing on a chair. That is hardly alarming especially if you are being ignored.
And then you start your double-speak about the contact issue. They lied John. The SI of HSV schools lied on radio. And you want to defend her. Unbelievable.
Well, if that is the behavior you condone, you get the school you deserve.
John:
Also at the Board meeting last night Board Member Dr. Robinson stated that the initial contact was by a person not employed by the school system and the contact was made to a person with authority. I believe she said the Base Commander or whatever he is called. There went the law suit.
A little off topic but somewhat related… I heard Phil Williams speak on Dale Jackson’s show about Alabama allowing Charter schools to be created. I think that would be an excellent idea. The best way to deal with these schools and administrators like Avis is to put them out of business. Charter schools could allow parents to organize and create the quality schools their kids deserve with the teachers and administrators that truely care for the kids.
I think it is something we should all get behind.
BamaGuy – to be clear – CJ slapped the table with an open hand. The Times misreported by characterizing it as slamming his fist. Small detail, but an open-handed slap is less angry than a slamming fist.
Did you really slam your fist after watching the video, you terrorist? ;)
Thanks for your support. We’re going to need you and your friends to help make this right.
William – Dr. Robinson said that the initial contact was made by Principal Williams to Army Liaison Williams (id est, the school system to the Army = viable lawsuit). She then said that someone outside the system called the Garrison Commander. Dr. Robinson has admitted that she’s been lied to already – I think I’ll wait for more facts to emerge before concluding that the school administrators are clean.
John – the Times article was sloppy and incorrect. Start with the headline – CJ was NOT demoted (big detail). CJ did not slam his fist on the table (small detail, open-handed slap). If you depend on the Times it’s not surprising to me that you’re misinformed…
CJ and his lovely family DO NOT deserve the mistreatment they have received from Huntsville City School personel! No need to rehash anything because you all have covered it all but what CJ says is the absolute truth. He is an honest, law-abiding parent with the interest of his children’s education foremost in his mind. To have supposedly professional school personel treat him the way they did is absolutely disgusting! As Dale Jackson says “The school and the military BOTH owe CJ and his family a big apology!! And shame on those comments that are negative at the Grishams. You need to go in prayer and ask God’s forgiveness!
It is the right and really a need to have opposing viewpoints Carol, as long as they are based on a difference of opinion and not just being a troll as some seem to have become. You cannot have a very fruitful discussion if everyone is just agreeing on all key points, you need someone that can question your assertions to make you question them yourself and either make you stronger in your beliefs or correct them. No Christian ever got stronger by never being tempted :) The fact is the school board has lied and acted with a cult mentality (which is how I see our AEA dominated system) and tried to cover it up or dictate the rules as they went based on the Supt remarks last meeting. Having negative things to say on a subject is far from wrong, but being insulting and intentionally sarcastic in an deliberate effort to enrage others is another discussion :)
Douglas C. meeks
Does anyone know if the Army has conducted an investigation? I worked 5 years as an Investigator with an Army Inspector General’s Office(Civilian) and this is the type issue we would have investigated with a complaint made through proper channels.
William – CJ’s Facebook indicates that he is preparing to defend himself before an Article 15-6 investigation, which might be trouble or it may just be the Army’s way of checking a box.
having served as a government employee, I recall being accountable for my action 24 hours per day, 7 days per week. If my actions at any time were “unbecoming” I could be reported to my superiors by anyone who witnessed the actions. I could be temporarily suspended until the accusation was investigated. this should be considered by anyone who serves our nation, you must have behavior “becoming” that of the office, department, organization, or agency you serve. what took place by Grisham at the je williams pta meeting, as addressed in this blog, is “conduct unbecoming”. He is adding even more negativity to his actions by the way he is now reacting. To be held accountable for the way he chose to act is a requirement. To attack those who are demanding this accountability is irresponsible and immature; a poor example to the young people who will be following this incident. With all of the horrifying actions that have taken place in America over the past few years, and even recently on a military installation, there is no place for excusing the aggressive, irresponsible, threatening, unneccessary behavior of a grown military man, who by the way has been professionally trained to kill, and has probably done so in his line of duty. THIS IS A DANGEROUS AND SENSITIVE SITUATION BROUGHT ON AND FUELED BY GRISHAM. THIS SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED!
I will continue to support J.E. WILLIAMS SCHOOL and those who serve our city at its site. May Dr. A. Williams and her team have peace and safety during this unfortunate and sensitive situation. Thankfully, she was trained by the military and knows how to properly address attack, foreign and domestic.
Can’t speak for anyone else but this one was just too f%%%ing weird to respond to, especially that last sentence. Check this one for weapons…..
dcm
Again, he doesn’t mention what “conduct” was so base that it deserved getting reported to the military. Typical. I wouldn’t even be surprised if this wasn’t the principal herself trying to weigh in anonymously under a false name. She’s lied about everything else.
@ J.e. Williams parent:
I has been my experience that to disagree with any of the right wing propoganda here on Flashpoint is to expect full retaliation so in the spirit of that. You are just a pinko,liberal fascist who wont be happy until all the white people in America are in concentration camps built Barack Obama funded from the pending Health Care Bill in the Senate right now. It is CJ’s right to act without protocol and decorum and not your’s to comment you coward. That must be the stupidest thing ever posted on here, how could you disagree?
Of course all of this is in jest.
Very well stated.
Fellow: You do make a good point I had not thought about. I also worked 21 years as a Civilian in the Army Anti-Missile Programs and I always had to be aware of my personal conduct away from the job because of my security clearance. To have ones Secret Security Clearance revoked was devastating and career ending for promotions and could possibly have resulted in termination of employment.
OK, I will trump your 21 with my 41 ( and I am not about to say where and neither should you) and all you say is true BUT one little thing here. Nobody in my chain would listen to such trash when NO POLICE were called, NO REPORT was filed. We have the vindictive nature of one individual who is playing to an overactive PC establishment. If the people in CJs chain were not taking it seriously, NOBODY else would be. Kinda guilty until proven innocent, but I am sure thats ok with you.
dcm
Douglas: 41 years. Wow!! You could have died of old age on the job (lol) I remember one guy that was still working long after I retired. He was in his 80’s and still on the payroll when he died. Douglas, I understand C.J. had a legitimate complaint, as evident by the school board reversing the position regarding uniforms. I just disagree with the manner in the way he went about it. I don’t know the Principal involved, but I used to see her working out at Gold’s Gym. Nice figure.
My time started when I was 17 and sooo smart I dropped out of school and joined the Army because I was working at the PX and all those soldiers looked like THEY were having a lot of fun (I mentioned how smart I was , right? Did I mention this was during Vietnam, I was weally stoopid) took me 2 years to realize how bad that decision was and went to Stuttgart America HS and then on to college later. Life how a way of teaching us lessons but ya gotta believe in fate or something because it worked out beyond anyones expectation (including mine). And to have at least 1 comment on topic : The whole point is that with no formal written complaint this all seems a bit stupid, I have seen all kinds of insinuations on this subject but NOBODY has explained why if CJ was so terrifying (I mean he was “bringing terror into our schools”) then why did nobody call the police or write a complaint, was security needed to remove him. So since I was not there, where is some proof that would allow me to take the principals side on this??? Smacks of the “nazism” that one of our other writers called the [Reactionary edit], but I think it may be just more dirty politics and brother-in-law deals.
dcm
Doug: I can relate to lot of that. Went into the Army at age 19, but had finished high school. Found myself in an Army infantry outfit in Korea as a machine-gunner for 7 months, then 2 months guarding North Korean prisoners-of-war. Received awards for valor in combat and after 18 months in the Far East returned to the U.S. and assigned to the 101st Airborne Div. I decided the Army was not a career for me and thus returned to civilian life and The University of Alabama. I learned thru service in the Army and working for the Army as a civilian one can accomplished so much more by doing it in a diplomatic manner. Gotta go–time to watch the Finebaum show.
If the principal was also in the military and therefore “trained to kill,” as someone said CJ was, then why did she feel so threatened when he acted the way he did? Wouldn’t she know how to defend herself? (I don’t want to say anyone doesn’t have a right to feel the way they do, but it seems like her reaction was an overreaction. Prior to this event, it does seem like, from what other people have said, that her style as a principal was aloof and somewhat dictatorial. So there may have been issues with the way she did her job even before this situation occurred.) The best way to defuse the situation would have been to follow Robert’s rules, allow the motion to be presented by CJ, and to allow debate on the matter. Being hostile to someone who is frustrated by the way they are being treated does nothing in the way of handling a situation like that professionally and maturely.
Sandy and Rev Bob:
“disrupting a meeting” FYI – which meeting are you referring to? The PTA meeting, where the bylaws were not used to conduct the meeting? Calling someone out of order is not disruption. Rules of Order are in place to CONDUCT the meeting. You don’t tell someone to take it offline so they can continue conducting the meeting without using rules to conduct the meeting.
Or are you referring to the first meeting, when other parents, (not just CJ) had questions about a policy and the prinicpal, switched the microphone off and said “I’m not having this discussion.” She completely obstructed them as parents.
Mind you, he wanted the administrators to discuss the matter with parents, so if a meeting is not the place to do so, when and where is the appropriate time? Calling someone disruptive and going to his employer because he asked that the PTA’s rules of order be used to conduct a meeting is not disruptive and has NOTHING to do with his military service.
Principal Williams first email to the Army liason did not say she felt threatened — she felt “humiliated” because “he got what he wanted, uniforms will not be mandatory until next year” and he is harming the “relationships she is trying to build.” And he said “it’s not over yet.”
That’s not the language of someone feared for her personal safety. That’s language of someone with a bruised ego, because she lost a policy dispute and worried about the relationships (financial?) she is trying to build. While she feels humiliated, parents like CJ are frustrated, because she is not communicating with them as parents or addressing their concerns. She is just telling them what they will and will not do. They are parents, these are their children and they used all of the tools available to them as parents, guaranteed by the board of education, by the school’s policy and the PTA’s bylaws.
For using those means, alotted to them as parents, she feels threatened. If the board had any sense they would make this right by getting rid of the principal and the Dr. Moore for their malice and for being bold enough to lie to their supervisors and the media about it.
Driving his kids out of town and taking steps to harm his career does not make the issue go away. They must be held accountable. What other plans does the principal have, what relationships, what agenda is she shaping, that comes at the expense of the education and barring parental involvement in the school? She refused to talk to the parents, but she has been able to talk to the Army.
CJ, wouldn’t it make more sense for you to spend your time speaking with your command about your job and what you need to do to keep it, instead of spending time with this blogathon that is doing nothing to better represent you? Try requesting to sit down with all partied involved, like our nation’s President had sense enough to do when dealing with the Harvard Profession arrest, and discuss what will end the confusion and get your job back.
My life experience has taught me that there are those in Amerca who think they are of a class of people who are better than all others, and do not apologize or work for peace when dealing with those in a “lower class.” Reading this blogathon give me a renewed sense of this same self-deceiving mindset. Step out of your pride, and go apologize and get your life back on track. Nobody appears to be interested in stopping you from keeping you job but you. I say again, YOU should have requested as sit down with all involved to correct this by now. If you have, I am surprised you are still commenting on this blogathon.
My life experience has show me there are those like you who envy anyone who has been successful in their life and start spouting class and racism for their execuses for being failures. So, which is for you? Are you part of the “lower class” and therefore you think this is a class issue? Or are you of African American decent and think this is a race issue? No one except you has brought up class or race. Yet you do so as if that is all this is about.
You so easily dismiss an administrator of a school lying to parents and trying to harm a parents career. You dismiss an administrator and teaches pulling innocent children out of class to rail against them because of a disagreement with a parent. You dismiss an elected official who lied to thousands of Huntsville residents.
None of this has anything to do with class or race. And the face that you dismiss the obvious unethical behavior of those whose job is to serve the public and support that behavior says way more about you then anything CJ may have done out of frustration. He is owed an apology as well as the citizens of Huntsville. I doubt it will come but this will not go away. I think Dr Moore will not serve for much longer and hopefully Ms Williams will be gone soon after.
sorry bamaguy, but YOU brought up race. you may have a very short or limited life experience. CLASSISM reached beyond any one race. may i suggest you pay a little more attention to the society that extends beyond the limited one in which you seem to live.
no person tolerates classism who has value for human life. as a person who has the ability to identify with the upper class segment of society, i am also a person who has high and all encompassing value for humanity and collaborate with the many who are of the same value and work to lift ALL classes to a place of self-betterment . bamaguy, i suggest you learn about this concept, it will expand your social vision beyond race (by the way, i am not african american, sorry to disappoint you), and reeducate you as to what is contemporary classism.
as i suggested to CJ, i say again, drop this blogathon, which involves people who do not care how what they write just adds fuel to the fire being created by this whole misunderstanding, and this misguided, misdirected, demunative blog. address your issue to those who can DO something about reaching its final conclusion. humble pie sits in the back of everyone’s fridge. very few are wise enough to pull it out and take a piece when doing so will improve their perceived image. this is the unhealthy pride that “brings destruction” as the bible says. your command will make sure your issue is handled properly if you REALLY are right in your position. if you are not right, i expect they will give you advise that will remedy this situation. this blogathon is a waste of your time and a detriment to your position.
perhaps bamaguy thinks he is speaking for your best interest. will he or those who sound like him in this blog really stick his neck out to help you. i doubt it, but who knows until you choose to get an attorney and request those who support you on this blogathon to donate to your legal fees. i know i will do so to support williams if needed. this blogathon will come to a quick end if you did this! i suggest you sit down with those who REALLY are involved and bring your life to a normal place suitable to your safety and well being . when you and your family are healthy, happy, and at peace, nothing else should matter.
@williams supporter – I just love the show of humility you have here. Bragging about your concern for all humanity while castigating CJ and others with whom you disagree. You are quick to bring up humble pie when criticizing those you dont agree with but said nothing toward Avis Williams or Roy Ann Moore or youself for that matter. Typical of an arrogant liberal. In a short span of a comment entry you are so easy to read. I doubt very seriously you have help anyone better themselves. More than likely you try to tear them down so you don’t feel as bad as you are trying to do here with CJ.
Maybe instead of blasting CJ, you should be blasting Avis Williams. She was the one who lied. Dr. Moore was the one who lied. But of course, you don’t see that as an issue do you. Why don’t you speak of those actions if you are so superior as you say. But instead, you only want the parent who dared to stand up to dictatorial administator and lying deceitful political appointee to protect his children to apologise for being forceful in his defense of his kids.
And by the way, CJ is dealing with this now through his lawyer and I have donated to his cause and will continue to do so until He gets the apology.
So go ahead and throw your money away in defense of lying politicians and administrators of schools. The old adage a fool and his money are soon parted seems appropriate. Your kids will thank you in the end I am sure. I will continue to stand on the side of truth.
bamaguy, i am not going to go around with you. this is my last comment to you directly; i will let you have the last word, since i know that is what your kind want anyway. there will not be anyone “throwing away money” as you put it, unless you were speaking of the redstone account established for CJ’s attorney fee donations. what was it you said about a fool and his money? how about discontinuing this wasteful blogathon and let CJ listen to his family and advisors, free from helpless influences. he has rank in the military. i am sure that counts for some degree of intellegence, despite what was perceived by his actions at williams school.
using the chain of command is how one makes wrongs righted, if one is civil, even when misunderstood. this is where humble pie is needed. maybe you don’t get the symbolism. unfortunately, people lie all of the time. the key is to PROVE the lie to be just that, not hurt yourself trying to demand something in a “front line” meeting, where people have authority to stop you. CHAIN OF COMMAND, DO YOU GET IT? this is what is available when people are mistreated by those in authority. CJ knows this, as an man of military rank. he was apparently upset and acted out of character. HE should apologize and be the bigger person i believe he really is. definately not use this blogathon to bring in unhealthy people who say they support him, but don’t help him by their written rhetoric.
i disagree with CJ, but i don’t tell him he has no right to address his position. he should use the proper approach and leave the ignorance for those like you bamaguy who just want an opportunity to show hatred for humanity, while claiming to support a soldier. use your intellegence bamaguy, it is the better option for decision making! be an example for CJ, not a blabbermouth who looks for someone who is “african american”, ” low class”, or “liberal” to harass and put down. you guessed wrong on all three about me, sorry to disappoint your stereotypical mindset bamaguy. you may have the last word~~~
by the way bamaguy, my children have experience more than one incident of attack and injury while at school. i used the chain of command to deal with it, not behavior that resulted in being walked out of a meeting by police. i got results using the chain of command, not trying to buck a leader at a frontline meeting. add this to my last message when you have your last say ~~~
Well now let us review:
You come here and insult us all and then tell us how we should act.
You ignore almost all of the real issues such as weather any city official should contact a person’s employer.
You ignore the fact that there is proof that the principal did indeed try to shut down any discussion that was not supportive in a dictatorial manner.
You ignore the facts that the Supt of Schools lied through her teeth about her involvement.
But you deem yourself so above all this and try to instruct the local riff raft of Huntsville in how to conduct ourselves.
Yet another elitist arrogant liberal pig. God you people make me want to puke. You have no ability of self examination and you and your narcissist president deserve each other.
dcm
I will suggest my lawyer.
Curtis Whitmore – Huntsville
256.534.8077
Thanks, MilitaryMom. I’ve retained the services of the law firm of Wolfe, Jones, Wolfe, Hancock & Daniel for this case. My military lawyer is Neal Puckett, but I’m hoping I don’t need to use him. He’s got enough on his hands with the 7 SEALS accused of giving a terrorist a fat lip,.
I am glad you found a lawyer. If we don’t start with justice on our ground level how can we expect it in DC.
I have never been more afraid for our military than I am now. The situation with the SEALS is so implausible and mind boggling it is unbelievable! It seems that terrorist are not the only thing our ‘boys’ are fighting. My son is in the Army and I pray everyday that he (and all our troops) are not let down by ‘us’, the ones they are fighting for.
Thank you for your service sir.
Take care and God Bless,
Deborah
Thank you MilitaryMom. Note that CJ already has a lawyer for the military article 15-6 and another lawyer for any civil actions. You can contribute to the ‘Grisham Legal Defense’ at RFCU.
I will do that. It won’t be much but if each of us could even just give $20 it would add up.
It has been my experience that when school administrators retaliate like this against parents who question their decisions, the underlying reason is their personal profit that they are protecting.
Look for a school board member or administrator who is profitting from selling the kids these uniforms.
Look for “friends” or family in the business that they suggest uniforms be purchased from.
Start looking at their check registers and credit card statements.
File for the employment contracts for the adminstrators.
File public information requests (Freedom of Information) for this information if they will not give it to you.
They are required by law to give this information to you I believe within 10 days.
If they do not, go to the Attorney General and file a complaint.
Read about corruption in our schools.
http://www.peytonwolcott.com