HHA meeting tonight – 29 Oct
2009 October 29
| October 29, 2009 | ||
| 5:00 pm | to | 7:00 pm |
The Huntsville Housing Authority is holding a public hearing tonight:
Thursday, October 29
5:00 p.m.
Oscar Mason Center
149 Mason Court
The HHA will try to make the case that ‘public housing is good for your property values’. The South Huntsville Civic Association will be there, and I’d guess that there will be several interested politicians attending as well.
One of the real problems people face when fighting City Hall or Federal agencies is that you’ve got a life and you’re making sacrifices to even show up at a meeting, while the bureaucrat can fight you full-time (paid by your taxes) – or worse, hire someone to fight you (also paid by your taxes).
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Reactionary:
The HHA will try to make the case that ‘public housing is good for your property values’
That’s an interesting point. I wonder how many of “those” people will actually show up in the hood this evening to “protect” their home values. I am also curious as to how many of “those” people are incensed when the schools that they send their children to are benefited by some of “those” other children who would have normally gone to schools in “their” respective neighborhoods were it not for their athletic ability.(Please see Marvin Stone Johnson High School Basketball Phenom who transferred to Grissom to help Grissom win a state championship in 1999). So if I am correct “those” people want “those” other people’s children to bring the State Champion trophies just not the “other” one’s who bring the test scores down. I would argue that not all of “those” people who live in Grissom High’s District are National Merit Scholars. Is there a proposition on the table to send “those” children who aren’t to Johnson and Butler where “they” belong based on this insanely hypocritical argument?
Where does the hypocrisy begin? Hmm Let’s see you have a Madison County Commissioner who has suddenly painted himself as the white knight here to save Southeast Huntsville from deteriorating housing values. What I find very interesting about this is anyone that’s been in Madison County who is remotely around politics has the same to say of Mo Brooks. “To know Mo is to not like Mo”. The Huntsville Housing Authority has been buying, selling and renovating properties throughout Huntsville for over a decade and that’s being conservative. As pompous and self aggrandizing as Mo is why hasn’t he raised this issue before? He calls himself a steward of the citizens he represents…why hasn’t he stood up before.(I know he’s running for office). Lastly, I can recall when a certain half-cent sales tax to benefit all schools in Madison County Mo Brooks was adamantly vocal about being opposed to its passage. However, when Mo was called to task as to whether or not he would accept the proceeds of the sales tax increase for his district he replied without pause that he would. The wonderful thing about sitting politicians that we as citizens hold in our favor is our ability to hold our elected officials accountable for their votes and actions. UNTIL MO DECIDED TO RUN FOR CONGRESS HE HAD ABSOLUTELY NO VOTING RECORD OR ATTENDANCE RECORD OF ANY HHA MEETING.
I find that the Southeast Civic Association through politicians and their members continue to prey on the fears of a generally decent group of citizens in Southeast Huntsville.
I just wish you wouldnt.
Hey Austin,
And exactly how much have you paid in property taxes on real estate that you own in the Grissom school district? I’ll just go ahead and tell you, I’ve paid alot and I’m proud to say that my child is in the GHS district and will attend one of the best high schools in the state, if not the country. GHS is a great school because the majority of students who have attended had parents of similar values ideals in the value of education and similar work ethics. Those folks made the scarifices in time, money, and effort to make the school what it is. These parents enforced academic and moral standards for not only their children, but the educators in the school as well.
So, in order to make some type of point you can only think of one instance and you pull up the name of an unfortunately deceased young man that played basketball at GHS 10 years ago. If you want to get on a damn high horse to make some type of correlation between out of district kids moving into a school district just to play sports and economic segragation, I suggest you start trolling the Hoover, AL or Buford, GA blogs. That sht goes on everywhere in alot greater occurances then what you see at Grissom High School and at alot smaller/poorer schools (see Deshler/Jackson County/Colbert County/Decatur/Athens). Maybe, that is one reason GHS is a great academically rated school, cause sht like that isn’t tolerated at GHS. You also failed to mention that GHS has won several state championships in soccer. Wow, I in your line of thinking it must be all those “poor” kids who happen to be great athletes moving into the district who just happen to make the soccer team??? I’ll point you back to my first point. The parents of the kids on the boys/girls soccer teams organize and maintain a stronger soccer booster club. This club raises the funds to hire the best soccer coaches they can afford in order to maximize the competition, discipline, and experience that their children will derive from being a member of the soccer team. Thus, they are successful year in and year out. If you want to play the comparison game, I can point you to a time when kids moved into the Butler district to play football at Butler. This is no longer as people with children avoid real estate in the Butler district like it is the plague. Now explain to me why that is?
I gives a dmn flip about Mo Brooks. I know this, I hope Mike Ball gets out there and represents those good folks on the edge of his district who are in South Huntsville.
How exactly, and why, would Brooks refuse to accept the proceeds from a voter-endorsed tax increase?
The HHA may have been buying, renovating, and selling homes in SE, and in the rest of the city too, but I dont know that for a fact, and if so they should not as that is not really a gov function. Nor is it beneficial to the housing needs of the poor unless the homes are going to be sold at a reduced value, thereby drawing the ire of the adjacent existing homeowners.
HSVaccountant,
You make some good points, however, I still say dont believe the hype. By your own admission GHS is a great school, I wouldnt argue that either. I would submit that HHA has been purchasing homes and placing residents in SE Huntsville for well over 10 years and there has been NO drop in test scores. Furthermore, if you could find where in any of the laws, by laws, alabama code, or federal law where Mayor Tommy Battle or any other politican has control over the HHA I would love to see it.
As a parent myself, I find the “other people are doing it argument” a little immature. I wasn’t disgracing Marvin Stone’s legacy I was simply using him as an example as he is the most glaring example of this. There are at least 10 other basketball players that have transferred to GHS under the same premise.
“Those folks made the scarifices in time, money, and effort to make the school what it is. These parents enforced academic and moral standards for not only their children, but the educators in the school as well.” So let me make sure I understand the people that HHA assists don’t make sacrifices in time, money or effort? Can you really prove this….really? People in public housing or that are assisted by HHA dont want the best for their kids…or is it that they can but just not in your neighborhood.
Art:
How exactly, and why, would Brooks refuse to accept the proceeds from a voter-endorsed tax increase?
Because he was a vocal opponent of it and voting as the voice of his constituency he could not have in good conscience.Or is this another example of the hypocritical political. I will vote against it but benefit from it.
Please do research about the founding and funding of Housing Authorities across the country……..lets not pontificate or extrapolate.
By poor people do you even know what the income requirements are for housing set by the HHA………….lets not pontificate or extrapolate. Give me empirical data.
Thanks
So they collect the tax and then Brooks does what to turn it down?
Does it go back to his constituents? Into other districts?
How does that work?
“I would submit that HHA has been purchasing homes and placing residents in SE Huntsville for well over 10 years ” -while your submitting please provide addresses? About 10 years ago, alot of new subdivisions in Hampton Cove started popping up. The migration has started.
“Furthermore, if you could find where in any of the laws, by laws, alabama code, or federal law where Mayor Tommy Battle or any other politican has control over the HHA I would love to see it. ” – There aren’t any. The same discussion took place on this blog, back in during the Summer on this blog. This is a form of unrepresentative gov’t, the HHA does not answer to the tax payers of Huntsville. They answer to nobody. That why our state reps/senators became involved.
“As a parent myself, I find the “other people are doing it argument” a little immature. I wasn’t disgracing Marvin Stone’s legacy I was simply using him as an example as he is the most glaring example of this. There are at least 10 other basketball players that have transferred to GHS under the same premise.” – My point was, this is a rare occurance at GHS. But, you insisted on pulling the ‘race card’ into this issue, as if residents of SE HSV are racists. You have just admitted you are a liberal.
“So let me make sure I understand the people that HHA assists don’t make sacrifices in time, money or effort? Can you really prove this….really? People in public housing or that are assisted by HHA dont want the best for their kids…or is it that they can but just not in your neighborhood.” — If they had money and time to donate to their local school, I guess they wouldn’t be living in public housing. So with your logic, all those folks in Council Courts whose kids go to Terry Heights Elem WANT the best for their kids. Have you ever been in Terry Heights Elem school???
Why should poor people who live in projects get to attend the top city schools but the poor who bust their tail and buy a cracker box house in NW Hsv go their zoned school?
Forrest:
while your submitting please provide addresses. Are you kidding me based on your previous post you are clearly prepared to commit civil rights violations. “I’ll burn that SOB to the ground before some “brothers” move in on my street”.
“You have just admitted you are a liberal”. By stating the facts, wow. When all else fails we’ll just call names. How adolescent.
“If they had money and time to donate to their local school, I guess they wouldn’t be living in public housing. So with your logic, all those folks in Council Courts whose kids go to Terry Heights Elem WANT the best for their kids. Have you ever been in Terry Heights Elem school” Yes as a matter of fact I have I have mentored there what about you?
Wayne:
“Why should poor people who live in projects get to attend the top city schools but the poor who bust their tail and buy a cracker box house in NW Hsv go their zoned school”?
That’s why it is called public education if you dont like it there is always Randolph, but I bet you cant afford that so you would be poor by Randolph’s standards. Based on what Ive experienced while in Huntsville there are a lot of rich stupid kids so what do you do about that?
Austin, My point is you are taking a group of kids from poor families who live in projects and putting them in top schools and luxury apts while similar kids from poor families who rent or own a cheaper home don’t get those luxuries. Providing necessities versus luxuries. Also seems to be a disincentive to move out of the projects.
Wayne, not all of NW Huntsville is in the project’s. In fact, one could say the same for SE Huntsville now that they have public housing. It is a myth, I will say it again, It is a myth that people currently living in the project’s will magically appear in some $200,000 neighborhood in SE. I will say it again politicians and some with prejudiced views on public housing residents are perpetuating that to “scare” people into action. They dont have all the facts nor will they allow any civil discussion of the matter.
Wayne never said all of NW Huntsville was in the projects – he makes a cogent point – if public housing allows you to live in a nicer neighborhood than you could afford on your own, what’s the incentive for leaving public housing?
Can you explain what you mean by “(i)t is a myth that people currently living in the project’s will magically appear in some $200,000 neighborhood in SE”?
I beleive that Madison City has sort of made this all work with the blending of rich, middle class, Section 8, HUD housing etc… Bob Jones is pretty good school, right? Crime does not seem to be out of control in Madison. I do not live in SE, so I really do not have a dog in that fight. Just throwing that out there. Any thoughts?
Madison does not have public housing projects. There is some scattered Section 8 housing, but it is minimal Madison has “made it work” by not having it.
Austin – The HHA will try to make the case that ‘public housing is good for your property values’.
That was paraphrased from HHA Director Lundy, who makes the argument that the HHA buying housing, redeveloping it, then selling it at a discount to eligible clients is better than having a foreclosed property sit empty. That may be true, but it’s a strawman that he set up. Banks don’t like to have non-performing assets like foreclosed properties on their books, so the housing will be sold anyway.
As far as making an “insanely hypocritical argument” – “you” shouldn’t be so hard on “yourself” for making it.
And as someone who’s been around politics in Huntsville and who’s had several discussions with Mo Brooks – I like him. We’ve disagreed on some issues and he’s argued his point logically and based on sincere principles. He’s a nice guy and BTW he likes the Serenity / Firefly series – which I think is cool.
The HHA may have been around for decades, but it wasn’t developing housing out of a narrow area (IIRC mostly along the Parkway from ~Drake to ~Max Luther). Until the HHA started buying housing outside of this corridor I don’t think many people (including politicians) paid attention to the HHA.
“…there has been NO drop in test scores”. This is not true. Test scores at Farley and Whitesburg have fallen, according to School Board member Jennie Robinson.
http://southhsv.wordpress.com/2009/07/15/meeting-with-jennie-robinson/
Forrest – I removed your ‘threatening’ comment – please refer to the comment policies.
ms.sensible – Madison has very different demographics than Huntsville:
Madison = median income $75K, median home value $210K, 79% white, 29% renters
Huntsville = median income $45K, median home value $140K, 63% white, 38% renters
I’d need to do some research to find the percentage of public housing in Madison in order to compare it to Huntsville (HHA owns about 4% of all housing in HSV plus there are other groups providing housing).
http://www.flashpointblog.com/2009/04/21/no-area-excluded-by-housing-officials/
Austin,
You spout far more misinformation than you do actual facts. The HHA has most certainly not been buying houses in SE Huntsville until recently. There was some Section 8 housing, but the HHA does not own those properties. And as Reactionary noted, no one paid attention to the HHA as long as it was merely acting as caretaker for the properties it already owned.
But contra Reactionary, you don’t have to depend on Jennie Robinson for the proof that public assistance kids are wrecking SE Huntsville schools — the test scores are available from the state broken down by free/reduced lunch kids vs. kids not on public assistance. The gap in test scores is huge, and as the population of public assistance kids rise, the overall scores for the school drop. Furthermore, these schools end up with more fights and other disruptions, and more resources must be redirected from enrichment for high-achievers to remediation for low-achievers.
You claim that the HHA will not be in “$200k neighborhoods,” but did you know the house it is buying on Drummond Road is listed at $170k and will need additional renovations? Oops.
The idea that this is all “fear-mongering” is baseless bluster on your part. Cities that don’t nurture their middle class lose it, and then end up like… Birmingham: A blighted central city ringed by well-off satellite cities full of people who refused to stay in the central city and continue eating the crap sandwiches they were being fed. Is that what you want? No one is forcing SE Huntsville people to stay where they are. They can easily move to Madison or out to the county, and many will. So who will pay the property taxes and sales taxes that fund our city then? If you think north Huntsville schools are bad now, just wait. Where will the north Huntsville kids transfer to when the schools in the south are no longer “high-performing” because the families that made them that way have fled for greener pastures?
The problem with arguments like yours is that they are all emotion, all bluster… no logic, no common sense, no economic reality. You can’t make people neglect what’s in their best interests just because you think they should for some reason.
So where are these HHA homes located in S HSV?
To whom it may concern:
Paul Hergert is a friend of mine and was out of town and in critical meetings – that is unavailable – during the posts shown above. This can be proved using the IP address if the fake poster above. Flashpoint needs to remove these posts immediately.
If the poster above is really Paul Hergert, please provide the make and model of the vehicle you keep in your garage. If you fail to answer or do so incorrectly, I’ll alert Paul and we’ll see what he wants to do via the legal process. This is illegal and defamatory.
You are warned.
Harry, the comments in question were removed. After I checked the comment database I saw they were left by a commenter that usually goes by the screen name HSVaccountant. Incidentally, that person also left comments on this post under the name Forrest – one of which had to be deleted earlier do to its inappropriate content.
BTW, check the policies page (link at the top). There is a defined path for getting potentially defamatory content reviewed. I don’t cross reference (or sometimes even have time to read) every comment. Just shoot me an email and I’ll review the matter. No need for legal threats.
Forrest, You should actually be scared of the caucasians in SE Huntsville they have a higher arrest rate. Im just saying.
No way that post by Forest is real.
If it is, you need to go away.
“So, Mr. Jackson, if you can’t make some positive contribution to the most basic of conservative causes, please exit with your self promotion useless babbling.”
Really?
So Conservatives have to win every election for me to have an impact?
Otherwise I have no impact?
Good to know.
Read your statement again, you were talking about being unable to influence Griffith’s election and being unable to stop the move into South Huntsville.
You clearly envision yourself as some sort of intellectual and that’s really just super but you might want to make sure your words live up to your hype.