Introductory South Huntsville Civic Association meeting
I attended the first South Huntsville Civic Association meeting with about 1,000 other residents last night. Hopefully Reactionary, who was there as well, will provide a more detailed summary of the meeting as I am strapped for time (plus he is a better note taker and meeting summarizer!). You can read the Huntsville Times article here and Professor Tom’s summary here. I thought it was a good meeting as civic association meetings go. Linda Lawrence spoke for Huntsville Community Rights and drew out thunderous applause on multiple occasions. Rep. Mike Ball’s comments on his legislative efforts were very well received. Tommy Battle appears to have considerable room to improve his approval rating in that part of town.
I think the formation of the SHCA will be a good thing for South Huntsville in the long term positive, even though the catalyst is most unfortunate. The group will have a website up soon. but for now you can email southhsv@aol.com for details.
Also, FYI – the Huntsville Times has all of their Huntsville Housing Association related articles in one spot. check it out.
Thanks for the link and the suggestions.
Towards the end of the meeting, you could feel the tension in the room. I think I like Councilwoman Moon. It’s almost like Battle has a divided cabinet.
Why was the meeting presided over by a uniformed police officer? Was this meant to be intimidating? Was it intended to keep us “unruly” people (as the Times previously described us) at bay? Whose idea was this? This was a bad idea, and not what I expect from a civic association meeting.
Sandra Moon is clearly treading water – trying hard to seem like she’s supporting the position of south HSV residents without being confrontational. I think she’s afraid of losing her seat.
There were only about five or six questions answered, by Mayor Battle, Sandra Moon, and the HPD-HHA liason officer – all of them sent in by E-mail. They seemed to me to have been cherry-picked so as to be relatively easy questions to answer. Pretty thin gruel.
As far as the city officials went, it seemed like a highly scripted meeting, lacking in much substance.
However, two gentlemen (a Mr. Steele and another – name escapes me) introduced the South Huntsville Civic Association and described what it hopes to do. And Linda Lawrence made a forceful argument against the HHA. More than that, she gave a forceful argument in defence of liberty and self-government – quoting the Declaration of Independence – and receiving several standing ovations for what she said. This was the highlight of the evening.
Yeah, didn’t know what was up with the officer running the show.
Also, school board member Jennie Robinson is awesome. She led with a Milton Friedman quote: “The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.” Finished by paraphrasing “The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.” She’s a breath of fresh air on the school board.
Yeah, that was a great quote. She was spot on.
Was it Councilwoman Moon that challenged the HHA to find solutions that work? I thought she was great too.
I did seem a little odd for an officer to lead the meeting, but then again, officers are citizens too. At least they didn’t bar the doors and give you a Battle Mark or some such, LOL.
Did it get rowdy?
It would have had the meeting gone on another half hour. There were no blows exchanged at last night’s meeting.
I have to disagree with those who are applauding Sandra Moon. She seems to be backsliding a bit, and I, for one, have lost some respect for her.
She started off last month calling on the HHA board members to resign, but she was clearly stung by the Huntsville Times’ criticism of her remarks. Since then, she has gone out of her way to be conciliatory and has repeatedly offered anecdotes indicating that the HHA’s actions might not be all bad. Last night, she told a story about a Mountain Gap Middle School mother who is living in one of the HHA’s Mahogany Row units and how her kids were A-B students, etc., etc. Well great for them, but that does not change the underlying problems with what HHA is doing.
At another point, she indicated that South Huntsville residents should be fair and realize that most public housing residents live in North Huntsville. O.K. — So what? Is there a point to this observation?
I neither want nor expect Moon to be a rabble-rousing firebrand, but I do expect her to represent her constituents. It is simply not enough to say that HHA’s actions are fine as long as all parts of the city “get their fair share” of public housing. There is no such thing as a “fair share.” I am against relocating ANY public housing to South Huntsville because it is a heavy-handed government action that destroys property values and leads to civic decline.
Sandra Moon has been a popular city council member. But she better wake up, or she may find herself being challenged during the next election cycle by someone who “gets it” on this issue.
Don’t miss what is going on at the heart of this issue regarding the leadership. I have been as upset as the next person with this HHA expansion but know that all of the leaders, both public and private, that have positions of influence with downtown planning and redevelopment are walking a tightrope and they know this and are trying to do the right thing for all of HSV.
In a past article where HHA board member Dick Fountain had terse words for Sandra Moon calling for his resignation by default, they both made amends afterwards. All of the leadership are professionals and have to act as such and be conciliatory with one another to get things done.
In this case, it’s doing what is necessary to get downtown cleaned up and the valuable underutilized and currently unsightly govt housing out to make way for new mixed use projects, venues and affordable housing for young families.
RCJ- Totally agree. Sandra Moon took aggressive approach 1 month and 13 days ago at the Chaffee Meeting, but this was obviously political grandstanding. Last night, her disposition seemed to waffle back and forth between the blaming the HHA for their actions and yet conceding to them stating “it won’t be that bad for South Huntsville.” In her 11 years, Sandra Moon has clearly forgotten about her constituency and this is going to cost her in the next election. As the old adage goes, “Remember who helped you on your way up, because you’re sure going to need them on your way down (or out).” Battle needs to remember this as well as the people I talked to last night all around me clearly hated him.
Wayne- Not really rowdy at all. Tommy Battle got boo’ed out by some guy when he was introduced and it was clearly telling the officers were not amused. Does anyone know who the attorney was that called out Tommy Battle near the end of the meeting? He gave his name but I couldn’t hear it from my location.
how did he call him out?
russ – the attorney was Brian Clark (who ran for District Attorney last time). He had a point IMO, he was objecting to the HPD moderator answering emails instead of questions from the audience. First question – sidewalks. 1200 people didn’t show up in real life to hear an email about sidewalks. BTW note that I love sidewalks.
I wonder about how much autonomy the Civic Association can maintain while the Police Department has an armed officer conducting the meeting. It just feels wrong to me.
Re: Sandra Moon – I think that it is good for a politician to recognize the ‘human side’ of an issue – the HHA affects people on every side.
RCJ – I agree with you that allotting a “fair share” of public housing is the wrong tack – a fair share of a failed policy still hurts. For example, it would be stupid to destroy high value / high tax areas just to be able to say that Hampton Cove (or Green Mountain or Jones Valley) have public housing next door. Yes, that means that I think that public housing hurts property values.
The audience responded with two standing ovations for Linda Lawrence and her focus on HHA. Sidewalks – not so much…
Hntsvillian — You can take the charitable view if you wish, but I assure you that all of the city’s leaders are not “trying to do the right thing for all of HSV.” The folks who are blindly pursuing downtown development are heavily influenced by the Committee of 100 moneymen and are apparently blinkered enough to think they can push the problem of public housing south and make it “disappear” without any negative consequences. The blatant contradiction – that public housing is a problem for downtown development, but is somehow not a problem for the suburbs – seems to completely escape them. They do not really care about the concerns of South Huntsville residents, and they do not want to listen to reason. They evidently find it inconceivable that folks in South Huntsville might just pack up and move, leaving a once-prosperous residential mecca as a blighted crater… and leaving the City of Huntsville with a huge, irreparable hole in its tax base. And when the residential neighborhoods go, say goodbye to all that nice retail space in Jones Valley, too.
Yes, I understand that conciliation on a personal level is a good thing between elected officials. But the problem is that Moon is being conciliatory on the ISSUE, which is unforgiveable. Being a squish is a great way to ensure that your side loses.
Russ — Yep. The key will be to get some credible potential candidates to start making noises about running. Personally, I would urge some folks to draft Linda Lawrence. That’s a very impressive lady.
Reactionary,
Just to be clear, last night’s meeting was a city meeting, not a SHCA meeting. The details of how this came about are a he-said/she-said affair, but the upshot is that SHCA thought it was “their” meeting and advertised it as such, only to have Robinson and Moon inform them at practically the last minute that the city had reserved the auditorium and it was the city’s meeting, although SHCA would be allowed to speak. SHCA has learned from this experience, and future Civic Association meetings will be completely theirs and will not be moderated by the police dept.
RCJ – thank you for clearing that up.
Reactionary:
Yes, thanks for clearing up who called the meeting. But, as a city meeting, shouldn’t Tommy Battle or another elected city official have presided. The fact that a uniformed police officer (and I have nothing against either the officer in question or the HPD) – a city employee who answers to Tommy Battle – conducted the meeting indicates to me that Tommy Battle is either a.) afraid of dealing with his constituents himself, or b.) was trying to somehow intimidate the crowd. Either way, it stinks.
By the way, the meeting could have gone on another ten hours and not become “rowdy”. Nobody there was a hooligan.
I sort of liked Sandra Moon’s suggestion that HHA find an example of a comparable city where this deconcentration of poverty of worked. It might embarass HHA, but would ultimately be a futile gesture. They would just say that thier study proved whatever they wanted it to prove, and do whatever they wanted to do in the first place.
I agree with the commenter who said that Mrs. Moon appears to be backsliding on this issue. She is far too conciliatory. She keeps on this tack about how she doesn’t like how the HHA went about the Stone Manor purchase. While I don’t like HOW they went about doing what they did, what I primarily don’t like is WHAT they did.
“Hntsvillian wrote
In this case, it’s doing what is necessary to get downtown cleaned up and the valuable underutilized and currently unsightly govt housing out to make way for new mixed use projects, venues and affordable housing for young families.”
For your information, the chaffee neighborhood already provides affordable housing for young families.
I agree with RCJ: I don’t believe that we can all have a big group hug and get along, nor do I believe that all of the parties in this matter are acting in good faith. A lot of this is driven by real-estate developers who want to get thier hands on that down-town property. They may also have an interest in churning the local real-estate market by flushing residents out of South Huntsville and into newer developments (this is sometimes called block-busting). There are different interests being represeted here. I have no obligation to defend those of people in the real-estate business. None. I will defend my own interests.
P.S. I wish I had been sitting on the left side of the auditorium in Grissom, so that I could have seen the glint of fear in Tommy Battle’s eye when Linda Lawrence took the stage.
Speaking of Brian Clark running for DA. Has anyone heard of any canddates ofr that opening?
I think I’d heard that Robert Broussard planned on running.
I certainly hope we do not have “White Flight” out of South Huntsville. Where are we going to go? South Huntsville mortgages average 190K, families purchase nice, but older homes in safe neighborhoods with excellent schools and community activities. Many of those families would be very strapped to afford a 400K + in Hampton Cove area.
Please, lets remain in our homes, stand firm and continue to thrive in the neighborhoods we have come to cherish.
One item to note is that the HHA said they would no longer buy complexes in south Huntsville. Does that mean they will still buy individual units in complexes? The end result will be the same as the regular residents will flee once public housing residents pull into town. Then the owners of the complexes will go Section 8 and presto! we have entire Section 8 complexes by stealth.
I have lived with the results of scattered public housing. It might take 20 years but eventually south Huntsville will be a sad reminder of what once was – kind of like a Roman ruin.
Pitchfork,
Yep. First, we must stop the influx. But once that has been accomplished, we have to roll back what has been done. Even the 12 units on Mahogany Row are too much, and the Section 8 stuff is a festering sore.
I swear, if I had $100 million dollars, I would buy up all the apartments that are feeding the Whitesburg schools’ declines and then I would start buying and renovating homes in deteriorating neighborhoods to prop up the property values.
We can see a change for the worse already near the Mahogany Row housing. Young black males with baggy pants, ball caps and gold chains strolling the streets up and down Weatherly Dr during the day. I’ve spotted a few on Mt Gap Rd also, they look like gang members to me. Of course they are not breaking any laws by walking the streets, but it is apparent their intentions could be casing out homes for robbery while people are at work.
The inside condition of Southern Family Market is getting real bad, like the owners are gearing towards lower income purchasers. It is a shame to see what was once a thriving upscale grocery store (Bruno’s) looking more like Holiday Foods on Jordan Lane.