Public housing coming to south Huntsville
NIMBY concerns on the horizon?
One of the apartment units purchased by the Huntsville Housing Authority is in the same elementary district I reside in. I’m not going to bellyache about that because I agree with the principle of what the HHA is doing. They’re trying to break up the sprawling subsidized housing tracts in impoverished areas and distribute the individuals and families throughout the city. I think such a plan has a better chance of lifting some of the dependents up.
As I recall, the HHA purchased single family homes in north Huntsville to relocate families into. I suspected that doing so in south Huntsville would be prohibitively expensive. Instead, the HHA is purchasing entire apartment complexes, which is only marginally better than the previous housing. I thought the idea was to split up the welfare families, distributing them into productive society. Purchasing entire apartment complexes to house them in only makes their dependency environment smaller.
More from Reactionary:
Hanna Rosin wrote an article about how crime follows public housing residents in ‘American Murder Mystery’, published in The Atlantic:
…a nationwide experiment to free the poor from the destructive effects of concentrated poverty. Memphis demolished its first project in 1997. The city gave former residents federal “Section8” rent-subsidy vouchers and encouraged them to move out to new neighborhoods. Two more waves of demolition followed over the next nine years, dispersing tens of thousands of poor people into the wider metro community…
…a recurring pattern [in Louisville], one that emerged first in the late 1990s, then again around 2002. A particularly violent neighborhood would suddenly go cold, and crime would heat up in several new neighborhoods. In each case, Suresh has now confirmed, the first hot spots were the neighborhoods around huge housing projects, and the later ones were places where people had moved when the projects were torn down. From that, she drew the obvious conclusion: “Crime is going along with them.”
As they say, read the whole thing.
That was fast. I wasn’t able to attend my neighborhood’s association meeting last night, but I heard it was standing room only and the natives were not happy (to say the least) about the HHA setting up shop in the area. I don’t think we’ve heard the last of this.
Oh probably not. May even be a factor or not in the special election (whether or not the apartments are in the district). People lose sympathy for the downtrodden when they get too near.
I didn’t know about the meeting. Does anyone know the location of the others?
I heard there will be another one in two weeks, but I haven’t heard the specifics yet. I’ll be sure to post the details when I get them.
Interestingly enough, I was able to locate the probate documents referring to these purchases in TimberBrook in Jan. 2009. If I am reading this correctly, it looks like these units were sold at way less than the amount of their valuation. First, Second, and Third. Anyone have any ideas on this?
The for a sum of $10 thing is the fee for changing the deed I believe. It is a number you’ll see on all such deed documents.
Yeah, doesn’t look like they had to take out a mortgage which is the only way to speculate how much they spent.
I think you can calculate it by looking at the deed tax on the deed. It is $1.25 (I think) or 1.50 for a thousand. So if deed tax is 125.00 the prop was around 100,ooo
I think you are right Wayne – or at least something of that nature (but I forget the rate). I only saw the deed tax listed on one of them, but could have just missed it.
On a side note – just thought it was funny – but the documents were prepared by Sam Givhan. Makes sense, given that’s what he does for a living, just always find it funny to see a familiar name.
I believe public housing is to concentrated in the main part of the city.
Here is the meeting information which I obtained from Waaytv.com. Apparently Mayor Battle and Councilwoman Sandra Moon will be present to answer questions.
Where: Chaffee Elementary School (Whittier Road)
When: Monday, April 6th 2009
Time: 6:30pm
To see the actual video and details on waaytv.com, do a search in the ‘Top Video’ box for ‘Stone Manor Followup’ and then click on the video to play.
I just moved here from Newport News, VA, a city about the size of Huntsville. We left because of the crime and gangs. About 20 years ago, Newport News “decentralized poverty” by putting public housing in previously safe areas. It was a disaster. Robberies, murders, crime skyrocketed. Those homeowners who could, moved out. Stores closed – the only businesses left in our area were mainly payday loans and pawnshops. This public housing will be a disaster for SE Huntsville. Do not believe the propaganda.
Hi, I am outraged at the public housing moving to south Huntsville. We work hard to be able to live in the part of town we prefer. Please read below at what Mo Brooks has to say about HHA’s strategic plan they filed. Moving the people from 600+ project units to SE Hsv sounds VERY different from “just a few” mostly elderly that we have been hearing! Please pass on Mo Brook’s response to everyone you know in South Huntsville. What Mo Brooks says about the school systems is exactly right! It doesn’t just take a good teacher to have a good school system, it takes the dedication and discipline of the parents to spend time with their child at home and stress the importance of education. I only see the down grading of our school systems if the housing authority has their way, and this is just ONE of the negative aspects!
In the e-mail that I received this response from Mo Brooks the HHA’s strategic plan was attached. I am not sure how to put that on here for people to read for themselves but maybe you can google it, if you want to read it?
Info from Mo Brooks on HHA:
FYI, attached is HHA’s strategic plan that HHA filed with the U.S.
Department of Housing and Urban Development. Note page 1, paragraph
7. HHA intends to close 600+ more project units (in Butler Terrace,
Lincoln Park, Sparkman Homes) .. and move them to “Southeast
Huntsville”.
HHA’s own documents strongly conflict with their public statements
that South Huntsville is not being dumped on . . . that we are only
going to get a small number of projects.
What is particularly troubling is their avowed reason: that these
project residents will benefit from “high performing schools” when one
of the big reasons why our schools are “high performing” is that we
don’t have the problems created by unruly, undisciplined troublemaker
students that come from public housing projects at higher than normal
rates.
Our teachers in South Huntsville schools do better, in part, because
our kids are more disciplined because our parents stress education and
reinforce what teachers are trying to do.
Martha, my wife, is a teacher (at Whitesburg M.S.). My daughter is a
teacher. My mom retired from Lee High School after 20+ years
teaching. My other daughter is doing student teaching before
graduating in two weeks.
If there is one thing I’ve learned from them it is that it only takes
1-2 students with significant disruption and discipline problems to
destroy a class period (and, hence, the lesson all other students were
supposed to learn that day). Multiple this problem by many disruptive
students and disrupted days and suddenly there is greater
understanding about why schools that now serve project kids perform so
poorly compared to schools elsewhere.
In sum, the relocation of projects in South Huntsville will undermine,
to an unknown degree, our efforts to ensure our schools are “high
performing”.
I hope you will share the foregoing document with anyone and everyone
you know in South Huntsville.
Mo Brooks
Hey Brian,
I have the dates of the next 2 HHA meetings. The next HHA meeting will be at Weatherly Elementary School on Tuesday, April 21st at 6:00 pm. This meeting is only open to PTA members as the HHA said that the Chaffee meeting was too volatile. They seem to think that they are the only ones that can express their feelings and everyone else is “too volatile.” To me, this is not fair to the parents who want to go but are not members of the PTA. I believe that the HHA wants very little people at the meeting and this is their way of getting it.
The 2nd HHA meeting is at Mountain Gap Elementary School on Tuesday, April 28th at 6:30 pm. This is also a PTA meeting but to my knowledge, there has not been any restrictions placed on this meeting – it is open to everyone.
Please respond if you know of any rights that are being violated by only letting the PTA go to the Weatherly meeting. Does the HHA’s definition of “too volatile” override what I consider democracy?
Thanks.
Are there any links to HHA’s strategic plan that HHA filed with the U.S.
Department of Housing and Urban Development? I would like to read it. I couldn’t find it on the web.
Thanks,
Harold
Do you mean this plan?
That’s the one.
Thanks!
As I understand it, PTA memberships at Huntsville City Schools cost $6 per year. The PTA memberships are available to Parents, Teachers, Grandparents and Friends. Seems to me that if someone wants to attend the Weatherly meeting, it will cost $6, and the proceeds will go to the children. Sounds like a win-win situation for everyone.
$6 – this is a good time to spend the money. But what about those without kids? When can we speak our minds? :(
There is a second forum tonight with the Huntsville Housing Authority. The Huntsville Times quote from Mark Russell appears to contradict itself:
“I’m sure the council will ask questions, and the public may have some input,” Russell said. “There won’t be a debate or dialogue back and forth.”
Sandra Moon was also full of hot air when she called for the HHA’s resignations as the paper has stated today:
Moon also backed down from her call for resignations, saying that would be “counterproductive” to her desire to foster a better working relationship with the authority. Moon represents south Huntsville.
http://tinyurl.com/c47mcs
Clearly, Sandra Moon has sold out her constituency (following in Tommy Battle’s footsteps).
I’m going to try and make it tonight, Russ. I think what Russell is trying to say is that the public will have a chance to speak, but the council will simply stare blankly at them and pretend they aren’t there.
Brian- wished I could have made it over to the City Council Meeting but couldn’t. I was able to pick it up live on Comcast though and it looks like it is getting heated.
I couldn’t make it either. Hopefully some good readers will chime in.
I read about the purchase of adjoining land to Stone Manor. Is there anyone who knows where it is? North ,south ,east or west of the apartments? Two acres seems small to me.Was that a typo?