Zero tolerance extremism
Posted by BrianToday we have a couple of items from the world of zero tolerance - one here in Huntsville, the other near Atlanta.
First Atlanta; where a Swiss Army knife was found in a boy’s car. Clearly the child is a threat to society and has thus will be charged with a felony. The kid has never had any disciplinary problems.
And here in Huntsville a total of six kids have been arrested for calling in bomb threats to Sparkman High. These kids are also being charged with a felony, “making a terrorist threat” to be specific. The crime carries a sentence of between one and ten years.
The Sparkman kids did something wrong, no doubt. Punishment is needed. A felony that could lead to prison time is over the top. Here is a rational way of dealing with such threats. First offense: five day suspension and your parents are given a detailed brief about what happens next time. Second offense: student is expelled and the parents are fined $1000 plus the cost of the response. Miraculously, this approach could lead to actual in home discipline and the kids can grow up and mature without the terrible burden of a felony conviction weighing them down.
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September 7th, 2007 at 5:32 am
My question is what is to happen to the drop out involved, he can’t be suspended or expelled and should he be punished more/less because he is not in school?
September 7th, 2007 at 5:39 am
That kid shoudld be criminally charged since that is the only avenue of recourse the government has.
September 7th, 2007 at 7:21 am
Cobb County is the place that passed an anti-gay ordinance and also IIRC one requiring every household to own a gun. There are some real brain trusts working overtime up there.
The kid was suspended for TEN DAYS, which even without the felony seems insane to me. Not sure if he got the suspension for leaving school without permission (he and some buddies sneaked off to eat lunch & the car was searched when he was caught) or the (shudder) weapon.
My kids were forbidden to take pencils out of the classroom in elementary school because they could be used as weapons. (Not speculation, this had actually happened on at least one occasion I personally know about.) I guess until they get permission to spray Xanex through the school ventilation system, the zero tolerance crap will get more and more laughable.
September 7th, 2007 at 9:14 am
Del, did Cobb County pass the ordinance requiring every household to own a gun, or was it just one city?
September 7th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
Sorry, Don, you’re right - it was Kennesaw. (I’d put a link but I don’t know how to manage those on this blog.) They did it as a sort of municipal retort to a community in Illinois that had banned handguns. An amendment to the law in 1983 exempted “those who conscientiously object to owning a firearm, convicted felons, those who cannot afford a firearm, and those with a mental or physical disability that would prevent them from owning a firearm,” and there is no mention of penalty for violating the law. In other words, as a blog I came across this morning said, the law is useless as well as stupid.
The husband has family in Kennesaw. Don’t know if they own a handgun or not, although if I had to bet I’d say they do.
September 7th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
Del, haven’t you seen reports that since Kennesaw passed the ordinance how greatly crime has been reduced there since the ordinance was passed? It’s been all over MSM as well as the internet.
September 7th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
http://timlambert.org/category/guns/kennesaw/
I don’t pretend to understand most of the above, but the claim on other, pro-gun websites seems to be that the # of burglaries in Kennesaw stayed about the same after the ordinance was passed, while the population greatly increased. Since the new folks in town live in McMansion fortresses on cul-de-sacs on the acres and acres of farmland my brother-in-law helped develop (median household income is somewhere around $60K) I do not find this particularly surprising or meaningful.
I’m not a gun-control fan, by the way, although guns terrify me and I would never consider owning, let alone carrying, one. But I think they are far too easy to obtain, and I don’t really see the need for hunters or anybody else to have a semi-automatic weapon. Hunters, please correct me.
I do, however, think everyone, even high school students, should be allowed to carry something as useful as a Swiss army knife, and that we have come to a pretty pass when they are not. Is it my ignorance, or would the fact that the blade readily folds back on itself make a pocketknife fairly useless as a weapon? Isn’t that the whole point of the switchblade?
September 8th, 2007 at 8:41 am
Del, I took a quick peek at the site you provided a URL for, and it seems to be dealing mostly with burglaries and not crimes of other sorts. Take a look at some of the pages below.
Copied from Kennesaw’s Official Website @ http://www.kennesaw.ga.us/index.asp?nid=351
“The City of Kennesaw was selected by Family Circle magazine as one of the nation’s “10 Best Towns for Families.” The article appeared in the magazine’s August 2007 edition.” ….and, ….” 800 localities were selected based on family-friendly criteria, including cost of living, jobs, schools, health care, air quality, green space and crime rate.”
Official crime numbers for Kennesaw are @ http://www.kennesaw.ga.us/index.asp?NID=137
Another article about the crime numbers in Kennesaw is @ http://www.mcsm.org/kennesaw.html
September 8th, 2007 at 12:37 pm
Don, I’ve been to the Kennesaw city website. I have also been to Kennesaw, several times. If a Ford Excursion could design its own town, it would be Kennesaw. Again, I am not surprised to learn that all the Emmas, Aidans and Jacobs are not knocking off liquor stores to feed their crack habits.
When Washington DC or New Orleans pass similar laws and we see a big drop in crime there, then I’ll start campaigning for such a law in Mobile. Who knows, I might even learn how to use a gun, and then buy one.
September 8th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
II think I’ve heard or read that guns are banned in D.C. and we know how that went…..criminals still have guns and the district isn’t one of the safer spots around.
Get a gun, learn how to be safe with it, and how to use it for protection. That’s the advice that Mayor Bobby Bright gave to the citizens of Montgomery a while back.
September 8th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
Oh yeah, Del…..my older daughter and family lived in Kennesaw before moving to Canton.
I’ve been through that area many times, but that was long ago when I was a kid and I was farmed out for a part of every summer to relatives in Rome, Cartersville, and Atlanta. With 6 kids, my Momma needed a break.
September 8th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
I doubt Kennesaw’s law had any direct effect on crime because it was more ceremonial than anything. I have little doubt, though, that mandatory gun ownership would reduce certain crimes just because it would make them riskier for would be criminals. I still wouldn’t support such a law because there are people like Del who don’t want to own one for their own reasons and should not be compelled to do so by the government.
I did hear about a fun little thought experiment a while back. What if everyone had one free murder they could commit without any punishment? Guy cuts you off on the highway? Run him into a tree - no problem! The catch, though, is that everyone is clearly marked in such a way as to let others know whether or not you’ve used your one freebie. If you start to enter into a possible confrontation with another person you might think twice about being a jerk if that person still has their freebie - you don’t want them using it on you! And conversely, if you’ve used your freebie you have significant motivation to be cautious and respectful in your dealings with others because they know that you can’t arbitrarily kill them without facing severe consequences. In other words you would be acting from a position of weakness. Obviously this is a ridiculous, unrealistic mental exercise, but it is fun to think about.
Wow, this thread has gotten pretty far off topic!
September 8th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
Don, I said when DC passes a similar law. When there, as in Kennesaw, everybody is required to own a gun.
Kennesaw claiming their low crime rate is based on universal gun ownership is a little like that elephant repellant my husband sprinkled on the front lawn. Gotta admit, I haven’t seen any elephants come around since then. But I’d like to know how the repellant works in Kenya.
September 8th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
Brian, it’s not clear to me whether Dell was referring to the ordinance in
Kennesaw or elsewhere, but did you read where she said, “An amendment to the
law in 1983 exempted those who conscientiously object to owning a firearm,
convicted felons, those who cannot afford a firearm, and those with a mental
or physical disability that would prevent them from owning a firearm”? Thus,
she nor others in the same exempted categories, wouldn’t be, as you said,
“compelled to do so by the government.”
As for the ordinance being just ceremonial and not having any real effect on
crime in Kennesaw: did you read on
http://www.kennesaw.ga.us/index.asp?NID=137 where the Kennesaw police
department says, “Summary: Although the population of the City of Kennesaw
and surrounding area has increased dramatically since 1981, on a per capita
basis crimes rates were actually lower in 2005 than in 1981.” and the crime
numbers cited above that?
September 8th, 2007 at 6:03 pm
Del, give us a URL that shows that in D.C. “as in Kennesaw, everybody is required to own a gun.” I’d be interested in knowing where that information came from.
September 8th, 2007 at 6:12 pm
Don, it is basically the opposite in DC. They had a ban on handguns that was overturned earlier this year.
September 8th, 2007 at 6:46 pm
I said, WHEN Washington passes a similar law, I will be interested to see its effect on their crime rate.
As in, “WHEN money starts falling from the sky, I will be happy to buy both my teenagers a new car.”
I am aware that there was a handgun ban in DC and that it did nothing to lower the crime rate.
And yes, I have read the stories saying that while the population in Kennesaw increased dramatically after their groundbreaking law, the per capita crime rate dropped. That is the whole basis of my argument: that the number of criminals, and the crimes committed by them, stayed essentially the same, but the per capita crime numbers were greatly diluted by the large number of rich folks who moved into brand-new subdivision homes. None of these new people were liable to be committing crimes themselves, and the criminals already in Kennesaw did not start burglarizing, murdering, raping, etc. in any greater amount than they were already doing.
Say you have a high school where 25% of the kids are discipline problems and poor academic performers. You say, “From now on, every teacher will wear a pink shirt every day. Pink has been proven to be a soothing color and should improve the problems at our school.” Then, you quintuple the enrollment at your school, drawing children from Country Day, St. Alban’s Academy, Miss Proper’s School for Young Ladies, and similar bastions of wealth and privilege. Wow, suddenly the percentage of children in your school who are discipline problems and poor academic performers has gone WAY down. Gotta be those pink outfits on the teachers.